FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[texasmr2]

I'm not trying too start anything again I just do not like someone telling me the FACTS as they see them if they have no racing experience. I will not reply anymore ok as I do not want too tilt the pendulum.

[Hammer278]

I have competed in professional karting championships when I was younger until my family relocated to Thailand when I was 16 years of age. I dont think this is very relevant to discuss however, as we're both not really doing this as a career.

We'll just agree to disagree.

[FRAFPDD]

I'm not trying too start anything again I just do not like someone telling me the FACTS as they see them if they have no racing experience. I will not reply anymore ok as I do not want too tilt the pendulum.

I didnt mean yourself i just had to quote your post.

[Hammer278]

We might see as many as 4 stops in tracks like Malaysia or Canada. Very smooth and abrasive tracks, recipe for Pirelli disaster.

And why would they make a 4th stop ?

If they run out of tyres....they might need to make an extra stop and stick on intermediates to get the cars to the flag?

More wishful thinking but you never know.

[texasmr2]

Great reply's gentlemen and thank you . The tire war should lead to a very exciting first half of the season and we all want excitement right?? Hopefully next season we will see some sort of stability.

Thanks for the input,
tex

[vaptin]

They were saying this last year about Lewis and Jenson. With the full fuel loads, Jenson was meant to beat Lewis by conserving tyre wear then.
I think it's all but a myth Lewis is one of the best and in being so is adaptable. Never under estimate him.

Not sure about that, last year the tyres were so good it didn't really matter. Although Lewis did well to conserve his in the Canadian gp.

But Lewis does seem to mention tyres going off a lot more, Brazil and Abu Dhabi I can remember, might have been others. And clear evidence I think his tyres had gone off in the closing stages of the Korean gp.

Yeah I wouldnt expect anything less coming from someone who goes for the snake, you and f1ea are wishful thinking in Jenson beating him this year.

And go tell Massa and Schumacher that last years tyres were soooo good

But rewind back to the beginning of last season and this same discussion was being had. If you're not sure about that use the search function.

FFS, where did I even say I think Jenson will beat him this year?

If this is the way you respond, I don't think I'll even bother. Did you just want people to say, "yes Bud, your correct"?

[darwin dali]

Well if smooth is 'squat' tell that too this guy and see if he agree's with you . When I first got my shifter kart I was beyond 'Not smooth' but after some experienced coaching I gained almost 2sec's per lap so who is right or wrong?

images55.jpg

Was that Prost's 7-year itch?

[Jensonb]

And here in lies the confusion. I was never saying Lewis is amazing with tyre conservation. My argument and provable FACT which will materialise in 2011 is - Jenson is no master at tyre conservation, this is a MYTH. Its an excuse he uses over and over to get away with not matching his teammate's pace and many people actually fall for this bullsh*t.

Yes, that must be it. You're right, and a considerable number of experts and pundits and team personnel, many of them with firsthand experience of working with Button, are and have been completely wrong for years.

It's also not like we have simple proof that Jenson doesn't work the tyres as hard, like, say, a few races mid-2009 where the temperature was down and he was struggling to et heat into the ty...

Wait...

And as for "an excuse he uses over and over to get away with not matching his teammate's pace"...Button has bested his teammate in all but 4 seasons of his 11-season career. And it's not him that says it, it's observers.

[Hammer278]

Experts and pundits...who cares. The F1 Supremo even suggested for shortcuts and track sprinklers!

If I was required to put down articles and reach a quota, you might find me writing about Jensons Godly tyre conservation skills too! So that I can be done and just go back to something which isn't my job.

Anyway, Jenson's teammates before he reached McLaren are not really World beaters are they?

Please list down his teammates and lets analyse their careers....and where they are now. Lets not talk about Lewis' record so far in head to heads not just in F1, but his entire career. It will make this discussion quite boring. You know what, this thread is about tyres...how about we take this to PM...

[FRAFPDD]

Look we have an ardent Lewis fan against an ardent Jenson fan, much like Webber and Vettel or Rosberg and Schumi and Prost>Senna (whoops did i put greater than? i meant vs. .......) your gonna get nowhere, debating its fine, but the reasons you support each driver is different and as such its futile to think youll ever come to agreement, the moment each side comes to loggerheads is when it should stop, it should follow roughly the line of an opening statement, solid evidence, and established proposition, the last of which is when both sides cannot reach a common conclusion and agree to disagree.

i wish people knew how to debate on here its as simple as Point, Evidence, Explanation. If you still disagree after that and all evidence has been exhausted, just drop it!

[scotty]

Deciding when to pit could dramatically swing races this year as strategy looks set to take on a whole new importance in 2011.

Drivers have continued to report high levels of degradation at this week's Barcelona test with the speed difference between one lap and the next being measured in large chunks of time. Vitaly Petrov reported on Wednesday that when the tyres start to lose lap time they do not come back as the Bridgestones were known to do, and the drop off can be very dramatic.

"In one lap it [the degradation] is getting to half a second, then one and a half seconds and then two seconds and then three seconds," he said. "If you decide to come in [to the pits] one lap later you could lose two seconds and those that come in one lap earlier will have some advantage."

All this means strategy will be on a knife edge, with teams having no margin for error when making the decision to bring their driver in for a fresh set of tyres.

Typically drivers have been able to do 15-16 relatively consistent laps of the Circuit de Catalunya this week on the same set of tyres, depending on compound. Petrov believes the teams on the pit wall will have a tough time making the right call.

"With strategy we know what to do, but whoever makes a good decision to come in earlier or stay longer... it will be quite a tricky decision," he added. "Today we tried to stay out quite long but you are nowhere, three or four seconds away."

Mark Webber agrees there will be a more opportunities to make mistakes, but expects the teams to get on top of their strategies fairly quickly.

"Strategy has always played a role," he said. "But yes there are a lot more opportunities to screw things up, unquestionably. Actually, in a bizarre sort of way, if we raced here tomorrow and you had a dry grand prix there wouldn't be many surprises. We know what's probably going to come our way and we just have to get ready for that. It's just in relation to what everybody else does that your strategy might be a surprise."

And Kamui Kobayashi predicts some "very strange" moments in the coming season.

"We can maybe see a Hispania overtaking a Red Bull, it's funny no? But I think it's possible," he said. "If the Red Bull has very old hard tyres and the Hispania has new super-softs tyres, I think it will overtake even though he is a backmarker. It is nice to see, but I think for spectators they will be confused."

Pirelli have been taking the comments on board, and in response to some concerns they have announced that they will supply an 'extra hard' compound tyre for the Turkish Grand Prix in May. Tyre wear is high at the Istanbul Park circuit, especially through the multi-apex turn 8. Auto Motor und Sport report that the drivers will get the opportunity to test the compound during Friday practice at the Malaysian Grand Prix.

Unpredictability is always welcome!

[Hammer278]

You bet...things could get so crazy that we could have a McLaren winning in Australia!

[spankyham]

I just had a close look at Felipe's last two completed stints. 10 and 12 laps.
In the 10 lapper he dropped off 2 seconds. For the 12 lap run by just over 2 seconds.
I couldn't give a fat rats clacker for fastest lap time, for me, those runs are absolute gold.

All this and we are only in the 2nd day of major upgrades to the car so there will be a lot more improvement to come.

I really hope we resist the temptation to do any glory runs. If we need to test genuine qualifying trim and pace then we should continue doing exactly what we've been doing at all the previous practices - pit at each lap so they can't record a time. I definitely don't need to see a fast lap time to know we have a good and competitive car.

[vlad]

Well, not too much!

[racechick]

Drivers can't push on these tyres and have to drive around way off the pace
"It's not racing" said lewis ,"It's just driving around."

" Don't watch me mate" said Webber to Martin Brundle. I'm only doing long runs this afternoon. It's going to be painfully slow".

It will be a lot less demanding on the drivers than before from a driving skill perspective. Wear rate will dominate everything. It will be about getting as much down force on the car as you canand driving to a -pre-determined pace way off your potential at the beginning. Then adapting to incresing oversteer. But not high demand, they will all be able to do it. (Lewis,Nico, Schumi and suthil are drivers who prefer cars behaving like this and may be able to hang on a little longer)

How they will be set up for quali will possibley mean they beginwith understeer to protect the fragile rears. this may give a quali advantage to Jenson,Alonso, heidfeld.

However this conflict of demands dwarfs into insignificanceby the variations in tyre drop off.

That was taken from the mark Hughes article in Autosport that someone else mentioned in the testing thread...really good long and in depth article.

Another interesrting point he made was concerning the long runs done by Alonso and Barichelo on day 2.Everyone else was running about 4 sec of the pace but they were hard on itimmediately.It looked suicidal but the stints were good. Hughes reckoned they were using tyres tht had been 'cured'...(driven gently then left for several hours to cure...gives them better resilience)

So thats more food for thought.

I thought i liked the unpredictable aspect of these tyres but if it has drivers running round 4 seconds off their potential pace then im not so sure anymore.