FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[bud]

Kids innit

is your name dudley do right?

[AKR]

Ron Dennis shouldn't be labled a hyprocite for doing this (if infact he did).

What should he be "labled" then? What other team prances around the paddock claiming thier drivers are on equal status and that there are no team orders within the team?

We've always treated our drivers equally, and we intend to continue to do so. This year, both Lewis and Heikki are entirely happy with that policy, and I anticipate no problems from either of them in that regard.

You can be critical of the way we choose to operate our team in terms of driver equality, but I think it does get the best out of drivers. It’s supportive and gives them guidance and puts them in a position to perform.

Perform what? The pullover for Lewis "perfomance guidance" move? Ron Dennis and Mclaren are FULL OF IT.

The drivers at McLaren do have equal status or did at the beginning of the season. However it is now clear that Lewis Hamilton is the only one out of the 2 drivers that McLaren currently has that can win their first drivers title in 9 years. So why wouldn't Ron Dennis order Heikki to move over? It make perfect sense. Besides Ferrari does it all the time and does it even before either driver has a clear or better chance at winning than the other. *caugh*, *caugh* The Michael Schumacher days. Either way I agree with Ferrari and their tactics at winning at all costs which meant favouring one driver when it was necessary. This means that I will not be a hyprocrite like some around here and now say it is all wrong that Ron Dennis has deployed the same tactic for the exact same reason Ferrari has done in the past. As far as I am concerned, Ron Dennis did what is right and in the best interest for McLaren.

[McLaren Fan]

It's not the same tactic at all. How many times. If Ron Dennis said to Hamilton that he would be the team's lead driver and said to Kovalainen that he would be Hamilton's rear gunner, then Dennis would would be a hypocrite. If Dennis had told Kovalainen to pull over for Hamilton when Kovalainen was lapping at the same speed as Hamilton or faster than him, Dennis would be a hypocrite. Those scenarios did not happen. May I remind you all about the 1999 Belgian Grand Prix. Coulthard, who was leading, totally outclassed Hakkinen, who was second. Coulthard was not in the title race, so McLaren could have asked him to pull over for Hakkinen to win. It would certainly have made things a hell of a lot easier for Hakkinen in the title race - it would not have gone down to the wire for starters. McLaren, however, did not issue Coulthard with any orders and let him take a well deserved win.

[KyrosV]

It's not the same tactic at all. How many times. If Ron Dennis said to Hamilton that he would be the team's lead driver and said to Kovalainen that he would be Hamilton's rear gunner, then Dennis would would be a hypocrite. If Dennis had told Kovalainen to pull over for Hamilton when Kovalainen was lapping at the same speed as Hamilton or faster than him, Dennis would be a hypocrite. Those scenarios did not happen. May I remind you all about the 1999 Belgian Grand Prix. Coulthard, who was leading, totally outclassed Hakkinen, who was second. Coulthard was not in the title race, so McLaren could have asked him to pull over for Hakkinen to win. It would certainly have made things a hell of a lot easier for Hakkinen in the title race - it would not have gone down to the wire for starters. McLaren, however, did not issue Coulthard with any orders and let him take a well deserved win.

what about the Monoco GP 2007, I belive Team orders were played there...

I mean LH was going faster but told to stay behind Alonso, so doesnt that cancel out your last couple of arguments?

[McLaren Fan]

It's not the same tactic at all. How many times. If Ron Dennis said to Hamilton that he would be the team's lead driver and said to Kovalainen that he would be Hamilton's rear gunner, then Dennis would would be a hypocrite. If Dennis had told Kovalainen to pull over for Hamilton when Kovalainen was lapping at the same speed as Hamilton or faster than him, Dennis would be a hypocrite. Those scenarios did not happen. May I remind you all about the 1999 Belgian Grand Prix. Coulthard, who was leading, totally outclassed Hakkinen, who was second. Coulthard was not in the title race, so McLaren could have asked him to pull over for Hakkinen to win. It would certainly have made things a hell of a lot easier for Hakkinen in the title race - it would not have gone down to the wire for starters. McLaren, however, did not issue Coulthard with any orders and let him take a well deserved win.

what about the Monoco GP 2007, I belive Team orders were played there...

Both drivers were allowed to race until the final round of pit stops, which has been normal McLaren policy at Monaco since Ron Dennis took over the team.

[headless]

Yes but not allowing team mates to overtake at Monaco is just plain sense.
Do you want a good solid finish or both your drivers in a wall?

[McLaren Fan]

Yes but not allowing team mates to overtake at Monaco is just plain sense.
Do you want a good solid finish or both your drivers in a wall?

Both drivers were allowed to fight it out until the final round of pit stops. As you say, it's only sensible thing to do to preserve a brilliant result for the team. Hamilton's frustrations with the team were wrong last year, for he could have won the race if a) he had done a better first stint or b) if the safety car had come out.

[headless]

Yes but not allowing team mates to overtake at Monaco is just plain sense.
Do you want a good solid finish or both your drivers in a wall?

Both drivers were allowed to fight it out until the final round of pit stops. As you say, it's only sensible thing to do to preserve a brilliant result for the team. Hamilton's frustrations with the team were wrong last year, for he could have won the race if a) he had done a better first stint or b) if the safety car had come out.

Precisely but he moaned.
I didn't know the "fighting it out to the final pit stop" bit. But then that is fair enough.

[racechick]

Yes but not allowing team mates to overtake at Monaco is just plain sense.
Do you want a good solid finish or both your drivers in a wall?

Both drivers were allowed to fight it out until the final round of pit stops. As you say, it's only sensible thing to do to preserve a brilliant result for the team. Hamilton's frustrations with the team were wrong last year, for he could have won the race if a) he had done a better first stint or b) if the safety car had come out.

Precisely but he moaned.
I didn't know the "fighting it out to the final pit stop" bit. But then that is fair enough.

He was young, frustrated and faster than Alonso all weekend, perhaps thats why he acted as he did.Doesnt make it right but helps explain it.
I dont buy that slow first stint bit. Lewis was fuelled much heavier than Alonso(They have a heavy and a light driver to minimise safety car disruption ) Alonso had pole, Lewis would have had if he not been baulked by Webber, so polesitter got the light strategy.Then they called lewis in about 5 laps early when he would have been able to get track position over alonso. This was not favouritising Alonso , it was again concerns over the safety car, but you can see how it might have looked to a guy with the adrenelin flowing who knew he was quicker.As I said before, it doesnt make what he said right but helps explain it.

[AKR]

It's not the same tactic at all. How many times. If Ron Dennis said to Hamilton that he would be the team's lead driver and said to Kovalainen that he would be Hamilton's rear gunner, then Dennis would would be a hypocrite. If Dennis had told Kovalainen to pull over for Hamilton when Kovalainen was lapping at the same speed as Hamilton or faster than him, Dennis would be a hypocrite. Those scenarios did not happen. May I remind you all about the 1999 Belgian Grand Prix. Coulthard, who was leading, totally outclassed Hakkinen, who was second. Coulthard was not in the title race, so McLaren could have asked him to pull over for Hakkinen to win. It would certainly have made things a hell of a lot easier for Hakkinen in the title race - it would not have gone down to the wire for starters. McLaren, however, did not issue Coulthard with any orders and let him take a well deserved win.

Yeah I was affraid you would say that. McLaren hasn't won a drivers title in 9 years. They want it bad. Now is their chance. If they dont win it now they may have to wait 21 years like Ferrari did. It is not a silly thought as when Ferrari just missed out in 1990 it would of been 11 years since their last title in 1979. But no they missed out and had to wait another 10 years after that until 2000. So if McLaren misses out now they may lose out next year as well if they botch up the develpment of their successor. Basically my point is Ron Dennis will do anything he can to win the drivers title for his best driver which is Lewis Hamilton, and if need be he will give that order. Maybe the German GP is a bad example to go by as your right Heikki ws a lot slower than Lewis Hamilton and therefore it made normal sense to make him move over. But you wait and see, it will happen, when both drivers are matched on pace and Heikki is ahead, they will do the switch. It is either that or risk losing the title by a single point like in 2007 and perhaps wait another 10 years for their next chance. Ron Dennis is a lot smarter than that. In fact he is smart enough that he'll make his drivers do the switch and not make it at all obvious. I am so sure at this that I would bet my loyalty to Ferrari in a bet that Ron Dennis would do this. If not, he is an idiot and I am a fool for believing he has any brains.

[headless]

Yes but not allowing team mates to overtake at Monaco is just plain sense.
Do you want a good solid finish or both your drivers in a wall?

Both drivers were allowed to fight it out until the final round of pit stops. As you say, it's only sensible thing to do to preserve a brilliant result for the team. Hamilton's frustrations with the team were wrong last year, for he could have won the race if a) he had done a better first stint or b) if the safety car had come out.

Precisely but he moaned.
I didn't know the "fighting it out to the final pit stop" bit. But then that is fair enough.

He was young, frustrated and faster than Alonso all weekend, perhaps thats why he acted as he did.Doesnt make it right but helps explain it.
I dont buy that slow first stint bit. Lewis was fuelled much heavier than Alonso(They have a heavy and a light driver to minimise safety car disruption ) Alonso had pole, Lewis would have had if he not been baulked by Webber, so polesitter got the light strategy.Then they called lewis in about 5 laps early when he would have been able to get track position over alonso. This was not favouritising Alonso , it was again concerns over the safety car, but you can see how it might have looked to a guy with the adrenelin flowing who knew he was quicker.As I said before, it doesnt make what he said right but helps explain it.

I supose yes.
He was young and young people have to learn someway.

[F1racer]

It's just post after post of Mclaren fanboy

No one is buying your "it's OK to use team orders, as long as these conditions are present" spin.

Fact is, Mclaren claims thier drivers are on equal status and in the last two races they have proven what everybody already knows. Ron Dennis is not only a blatent cheater, he looks into the camera and lies through his teeth. He will basically say anything to make himself and his team look good, and he has no qualms about lying to do it.

Only a complete moron would claim that Hamilton is anything but Mclaren's number one driver...

In the biggest ironic twist in years, Ferrari's drivers are racing eachother and Mclaren have declared Lewis thier number one...Mclaren looks like Ferrari with Schumacher...

[racechick]

It's just post after post of Mclaren fanboy

No one is buying your "it's OK to use team orders, as long as these conditions are present" spin.

Fact is, Mclaren claims thier drivers are on equal status and in the last two races they have proven what everybody already knows. Ron Dennis is not only a blatent cheater, he looks into the camera and lies through his teeth. He will basically say anything to make himself and his team look good, and he has no qualms about lying to do it.

Only a complete moron would claim that Hamilton is anything but Mclaren's number one driver...

In the biggest ironic twist in years, Ferrari's drivers are racing eachother and Mclaren have declared Lewis thier number one...Mclaren looks like Ferrari with Schumacher...

You miss the point

[bud]

no, he gets the point

[Mikep99]

It's just post after post of Mclaren fanboy

No one is buying your "it's OK to use team orders, as long as these conditions are present" spin.

Fact is, Mclaren claims thier drivers are on equal status and in the last two races they have proven what everybody already knows. Ron Dennis is not only a blatent cheater, he looks into the camera and lies through his teeth. He will basically say anything to make himself and his team look good, and he has no qualms about lying to do it.

Only a complete moron would claim that Hamilton is anything but Mclaren's number one driver...

In the biggest ironic twist in years, Ferrari's drivers are racing eachother and Mclaren have declared Lewis thier number one...Mclaren looks like Ferrari with Schumacher...

F1racer
I posted this once before.

This is how McLaren works it out:

Formula:
It's OK when x = {q + [q2 + (r-p2)3]1/2}1/3 + {q - [q2 + (r-p2)3]1/2}1/3 + p
BUT not OK when p = -b/(3a), q = p3 + (bc-3ad)/(6a2), r = c/(3a)

Flowchart: