FORUMula1.com

[LiamCatterson]

I'm sorry, I call B.S to Ricciardo's recent bad luck as a coincidence...Red Bull is obviously making sure no Australian gets close to true and pure brilliance

[CookinFlat6]

There is a rumour that when RBR were planning their super team around Seb, they decided to get an Austrian in as no 2 driver to keep Matsechitch happy

But someone made a mistake and got an AUSTRALIAN instead

[racechick]

There is a rumour that when RBR were planning their super team around Seb, they decided to get an Austrian in as no 2 driver to keep Matsechitch happy

But someone made a mistake and got an AUSTRALIAN instead

[1Lemon]

Everyone is making a big thing about this team order but the guys at Williams don't seem to mind. At the start Bottas was told not to pass massa until he passes button, he didn't then later on they wanted Bottas to have a crack but yeah no real loss.

[sagi58]

Everyone is making a big thing about this team order but the guys at Williams don't seem to mind. At the start Bottas was told not to pass massa until he passes button, he didn't then later on they wanted Bottas to have a crack but yeah no real loss.

Just to be clear: I don't have a problem with either directive.
It didn't make sense for Bottas to pass until Massa was clear of Button.
And, it didn't make sense for Massa to hold Bottas up, afterwards, as
I'm sure Williams just wanted to get more information on how the cars
were handling, under the respective drivers, when in "clearer" air!
It's not like there were a lot of points on the table, for this race; but,
it might help them out in future races.

I would love to be a fly on the wall at their post-race debriefing!!

[CookinFlat6]

Everyone is making a big thing about this team order but the guys at Williams don't seem to mind. At the start Bottas was told not to pass massa until he passes button, he didn't then later on they wanted Bottas to have a crack but yeah no real loss.

Williams have a problem, there is no way to spin it otherwise. TO are legal now and it was handled in an appalling manner by the engineer, management and Massa

It also raises the question of whether Williams even with good engineering are capable of orchestrating a title challenge.

Simmonds wasnt there and so it could be that things could get better, but that was shocking, especially Maasa weeping to the press after the race. Someone has to crack the whip at that team because Bottas is faster and will need the team behind him to maximise chances.

As for Massa, one minute he is looking like beating Alonso by an inspired switch to Williams, and the next he is showing what a lame and selfish team player he really is given weak management. A bit like Button, more concerned with racing their teammate than the top boys

[RichieRooster]

A bit like Button, more concerned with racing their teammate than the top boys

I was worrying about that today funnily enough. I like Button, but he needs to focus on his race, not what K Mag is doing. If he gets too bogged down in that battle it'll seriously damage his season

[sagi58]

Entertaining to see the difference a team/year makes!! This year, at Williams, Massa is being dressed down
for ignoring team orders; whereas, last year, at Ferrari, he was being commended!!

[Hammer278]

A bit like Button, more concerned with racing their teammate than the top boys

I was worrying about that today funnily enough. I like Button, but he needs to focus on his race, not what K Mag is doing. If he gets too bogged down in that battle it'll seriously damage his season

Even Button knows his level of talent which is why he's got the rookie in his mind the entire time.

[zurich_allan]

I agree 100% with Massa on the team orders front.

So early into his Williams career, I don't see what else he could do but go against the 'direction' given to him. In only his second race, there would be no better way to cement his position as a number two driver than to go along with such an order that:

1. Was not for a race victory or even a podium
2. At the stage in the race the order was given was not even likely to make any significant difference to where both cars finished - just switching the order of them round - I do not think that Bottas would have got past Button.
3. Used such an utterly ridiculous choice of wording - what a complete slap in the face, an absolute joke - if I was him I'd actually knock the block off of whoever actually gave the order in those terms.

If Bottas was / is faster (and in spite of the above, I think over the course of the season he will be), he should pass him through racing, or should qualify further up the grid. Any difference in speed today was very very marginal at best.

[CookinFlat6]

To be fair to Williams and to clarify the context, Bottas had been told previously to stay behind Massa and give him a chance despite being faster AND it was in response to a TO request from Massa, similar to Buttons squealing 'get him off me, call him off guys'

The team respected Massa by holding Bottas back, and it was only fair that later Massa remember that TO works both ways

As far as knocking the block of the engineer - this was a stupid choice of words, but it is standard terminology in these situations, like Box, box, box. Thinking logically why should the engineer doing his job have to ubnderstand Massas history and all the psychoanalysis of rejections in his childhood, or being ditched by his first Gf, or being humiliated previously by the same phrase

he engineer, the management and Massa are all at fault, Massa the victim is a long shot

If he had disobeyed at Ferrari in the first place fair enough, but once he has bent over and continued to bend over to suddenly stop is like going to a surgeon and asking him to sew up his bottom again to regain his virginity

[zurich_allan]

In which case Bottas should also have ignored and raced. It's that simple when you're talking about the stage of the season, the positions they were over, and speaking of context - where Williams are at the moment.

As for the engineer etc. It is patently ridiculous to use the example of them having to psychoanalyse or look at his childhood etc. This was a HUGELY controversial incident in the recent past that EVERY F1 employee will be aware of. It was a complete bonehead choice of phrase. I'm sorry, but there really is no argument to the contrary on that particular point.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

[CookinFlat6]

It was a big failure for the team, the engineer was either thick or having a laugh. However he may have just been doing his job. Like I said the engineer the management AND Massa were at fault

you gotta meet me in the middle here Zurich

[zurich_allan]

Oh, don't get me wrong - Massa didn't exactly cover himself in glory, but I can't help but feel that given the point in the season and where the cars were on track, with the likely outcome only ever going to be at the very most one place of a difference, if even that, that the team should never have put either driver in the position to either accept or reject team orders.

All it would have taken if requested is to firmly state that both are free to race at the moment unless one clearly has a big advantage - problem averted before it even starts.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

[CookinFlat6]

Oh, don't get me wrong - Massa didn't exactly cover himself in glory, but I can't help but feel that given the point in the season and where the cars were on track, with the likely outcome only ever going to be at the very most one place of a difference, if even that, that the team should never have put either driver in the position to either accept or reject team orders.

All it would have taken if requested is to firmly state that both are free to race at the moment unless one clearly has a big advantage - problem averted before it even starts.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Ah ha, but Massa initiated the teams TO when he requested Bottas be stopped from trying to pass him, he was the one squealing like Button on the radio that his team mate was aggresively trying to pass. Bottas stopped trying after the team gave him a TO that was instigated by Massa

Massa didnt cover himself with any glory at all, and the management didnt either

and ofcourse the engineer we know about