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[vlad]

Bourdais wasn't better than him! He was P2 on quali, but his engine failed to start, so he started the race from the pits. Vettel drove like insane on the rain, leaving everybody behind. I remember some very dirty moves from Hamilton in that race, though...

[Robert12010]

Bourdais wasn't better than him! He was P2 on quali, but his engine failed to start, so he started the race from the pits. Vettel drove like insane on the rain, leaving everybody behind. I remember some very dirty moves from Hamilton in that race, though...

they wernt dirty, good driving i say

[vlad]

Dude, he pushed 2 drivers out of the track, doing more then one move when they tried to attack him... I call that dirty!

[billindenver]

Dude, he pushed 2 drivers out of the track, doing more then one move when they tried to attack him... I call that dirty!

Ah the good ole days of monkeys at the back.

[bud]

Dude, he pushed 2 drivers out of the track, doing more then one move when they tried to attack him... I call that dirty!

c'mon Vlad it was an awesome drive, if it stayed wet Lewis probably would have won.
[youtube]GDlLOrDZlyM[/youtube]

[What's Burning?]

Dude, he pushed 2 drivers out of the track, doing more then one move when they tried to attack him... I call that dirty!

A lot of people would call that aggressive driving, racing, and it's clearly what a driver skilled at overtaking will do. Which is the point folks are trying to make here, we've not seen that from Vettel. Ever.

To his credit, he's not had to.

[Hammer278]

Dude, he pushed 2 drivers out of the track, doing more then one move when they tried to attack him... I call that dirty!

c'mon Vlad it was an awesome drive, if it stayed wet Lewis probably would have won.
[youtube]GDlLOrDZlyM[/youtube]

Vintage Lewis, what a drive. We need a thunderstorm during a race this year.

[spankyham]

I believe you're recalling wrongly. The track was wet throughout qualifying and also the race. Vettel didn't benefit from great timing or some such, he posted the pole lap in equal conditions to everyone. In the race, the track was fully wet and he just rode off into the sunset. It was definitely one of the best drives of his career, and what a result for Toro Rosso.

I don't classify him as an overtaker in the league of Lewis, Alonso, and Kubica but he is solid and incredibly fast. The best asset for Redbull, when they have a car which is class of the field.

Might have to watch Q for that one again. I was pretty sure it really came down after he set his time. It was wet, yes, but it became very wet and raining for the others (after Seb). Will come back if I get to watch it again.

Don't remember him disappearing, and I think Bordais actually had a better time than him. Didn't the Kube have a great race that day

Can't find qualy but am watching the ITV race coverage which has a fair bit of qualy in it. Not finished yet, but it's definitely a great race.

A lot of damage was done in Q2 - and for pretty much the reasons I mentioned. Seb set a fast lap early and, when some of the big guns came out it started pouring. Kimi could only manage 14th and Lewis went out on inters - which shows how marginal the rain was. As he got on track the heavens opened, he spun and ended up 15th. Similar for the Kube. So Seb had a top 10 without the the 2 top contenders and also minus Kubica. I didn't remember that Bordais put his car on the second row, but he did.

As I said, once he'd secured pole, in a car that was very fast in a straight line and at Monza, he was never going to be beaten, he had to make a mistake to loose. To his credit, he didn't, but it wasn't like Lewis or Kubica's race. OK, gonna get back and watch the rest of the race

[vlad]

Dude, he pushed 2 drivers out of the track, doing more then one move when they tried to attack him... I call that dirty!

A lot of people would call that aggressive driving, racing, and it's clearly what a driver skilled at overtaking will do. Which is the point folks are trying to make here, we've not seen that from Vettel. Ever.

To his credit, he's not had to.

He clearly forced Glock outside of the race track. I call that dirty. Have you watched Vettel's overtaking at Silverstone last year?

[billindenver]

Dude, he pushed 2 drivers out of the track, doing more then one move when they tried to attack him... I call that dirty!

A lot of people would call that aggressive driving, racing, and it's clearly what a driver skilled at overtaking will do.

Really? So when Schumacher pushed Rubens over to the wall last year...would those same people say that it was not a dirty move?

No...they would not.

Shove a guy off onto the grass...and it's a dirty move. It's dirty when Schumacher does it and its dirty when Hamilton did it. The difference being, Hamilton did it because he was immature and over zealous...and it appears, to his credit, that he has outgrown that. Schuey did it because he is Schuey and he will never outgrow it.

[vlad]

[myownalias]

I think that Vettel has made a few moves this season that have certainly bent the rules to the maximum if not actually breaking them, although there has been some overtakes where he used all of the track and then some to get the move completed which according to FIA rules is prohibited, just because it was on the outside of the track made in OK in the eyes of the stewards! GO FIGURE!

[What's Burning?]

Dude, he pushed 2 drivers out of the track, doing more then one move when they tried to attack him... I call that dirty!

A lot of people would call that aggressive driving, racing, and it's clearly what a driver skilled at overtaking will do.

Really? So when Schumacher pushed Rubens over to the wall last year...would those same people say that it was not a dirty move?

No...they would not.

Shove a guy off onto the grass...and it's a dirty move. It's dirty when Schumacher does it and its dirty when Hamilton did it. The difference being, Hamilton did it because he was immature and over zealous...and it appears, to his credit, that he has outgrown that. Schuey did it because he is Schuey and he will never outgrow it.

It's only dirty when another driver does it, when your driver does it it's racing. Insert any names you want into that equation. Name someone who hasn't done a questionable pass or done something deemed dirty by some. It's when there's a preponderance of it, or when it's done unnecessarily that the label begins to stick, so to call a driver dirty because one over take in a race was questionable, and 10 others were solid is not a fair representation of that driver. The notoriety Schumacher has is well earned, the Barrichello incident last year was a reminder of it.

In my opinion, there is a much greater tendency in F1 to be a dirty driver when defending, than when passing.

[billindenver]

Dude, he pushed 2 drivers out of the track, doing more then one move when they tried to attack him... I call that dirty!

A lot of people would call that aggressive driving, racing, and it's clearly what a driver skilled at overtaking will do.

Really? So when Schumacher pushed Rubens over to the wall last year...would those same people say that it was not a dirty move?

No...they would not.

Shove a guy off onto the grass...and it's a dirty move. It's dirty when Schumacher does it and its dirty when Hamilton did it. The difference being, Hamilton did it because he was immature and over zealous...and it appears, to his credit, that he has outgrown that. Schuey did it because he is Schuey and he will never outgrow it.

It's only dirty when another driver does it, when your driver does it it's racing. Insert any names you want into that equation. Name someone who hasn't done a questionable pass or done something deemed dirty by some. It's when there's a preponderance of it, or when it's done unnecessarily that the label begins to stick, so to call a driver dirty because one over take in a race was questionable, and 10 others were solid is not a fair representation of that driver. The notoriety Schumacher has is well earned, the Barrichello incident last year was a reminder of it.

In my opinion, there is a much greater tendency in F1 to be a dirty driver when defending, than when passing.

I think most of what you said there falls into the 'obvious' category and for the most part is off topic. What we are discussing here, if you scroll up, is the statement: "I remember some very dirty moves from Hamilton in that race, though..."

To which was responded that it was aggressive driving, not dirty. Vlad then said Hamilton had pushed two drivers into the grass and he considered that to be dirty...to which you responded that such would call that aggressive, not dirty.

Point being, nobody said 'Hamilton is a dirty driver'...which appears to be the charge which you are defending. You are defending against a statement that was never made and using Schumacher as a defense? If you go back and read again, Vlad simply said in that one race, Hamilton had some dirty moves which would be hard to argue against in my opinion.

Without question, Schuey has a very dirty side to him which is why I hated him when he was on top. Hamilton showed some of that early in his career but has not done anything of the sort in a while. Its ok to admit that in the past, even your hero may have done it wrong. There is no shame in that. Nobody is attacking him. Nobody is saying he is or ever was as bad as Schumacher.

[vlad]

Hamilton didn't do something like that in a while... Last time it was with Webber, 2009.