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[racechick]

You havent seen those quotes Give me a minute and I'll dig them out.

Whitmarsh's behaviour has changed my view of him. I didnt dislike him initially



Here's one, Bahrain practice:-

"What we've got are very interesting dynamics in this team, and that is that Jenson is very experienced, super smart, great at using his tyres. In truth he's working and operating a team but he really wants to beat his team-mate. I think Lewis is learning as well, but there's no doubt this year has been about tyre pressures, tyre temperatures, really understanding how you get the best out of the tyre, how you get them up to temperature, how you really get the grip at both ends and then of course how you make the tyres last during a weekend."

[The Second Coming]

You havent seen those quotes Give me a minute and I'll dig them out.

Whitmarsh's behaviour has changed my view of him. I didnt dislike him initially



Here's one, Bahrain practice:-

"What we've got are very interesting dynamics in this team, and that is that Jenson is very experienced, super smart, great at using his tyres. In truth he's working and operating a team but he really wants to beat his team-mate. I think Lewis is learning as well, but there's no doubt this year has been about tyre pressures, tyre temperatures, really understanding how you get the best out of the tyre, how you get them up to temperature, how you really get the grip at both ends and then of course how you make the tyres last during a weekend."

Honestly RC, I don't think you really needed to bother.

By the way, I understand your admission about Jenson. I too never really cared how he factored as a driver...that is, until he came to McLaren. When he arrived, I knew the deal—he was there to help the team back to the WCC. Lewis couldn't do it by himself, Heikki wasn't capable and Alonso didn't stay. Beyond the WCC, my expectations of Jenson winning a WDC before or while Lewis is at McLaren is nil. Assuming of course that everything stays the same and they are/remain equal (barring any conspiracies ). My reasoning is, in this business/sport of F1, the cars will always be a moving target (pardon the pun) in terms of design, much a function of the technical regs. With that said, it will always be about who is best at taming the beast he is given. The best drivers are the most capable and we see that as evidence today so no need to even mention names. Where Jenson's name gets mentioned a lot is on the odd Sunday when the car is perfect or conditions change and he catches the sweetspot just right. Honestly...1.How often does that happen and 2.Over the course of a long 20 race campaign, how often can a team rely on that? So, though I'm not fighting off all comers to be at the front of the Jenson Fan Club line, I want...no, need him to do well, the best he can to help the team wrestle back the WCC to Woking. The WDC is another issue for him because in a year like this when both he and Lewis have their game face on, he's not only losing to him, but Jenson also has the other drivers to contend with and he's losing to them in a superior car. The one thing he has going for him is that, statistically (if you have a Mathematician's tendencies) Lewis will suffer from other cockups during the season which will cost him points so that will keep the points tally a bit closer on paper than they really are all things considered.

Right, so what we know is, our Jens has the exact same good car as Lewis but can't figure it out. He did well in race one when the other teams were caught on their back foot. After five races, the others have whittled away the advantage and so the difference makers will be the cream that rises to the top. We're seeing that in Lewis, Alonso, Vettel and Kimi is starting to show me something. Question is, can Jenson join this elite group based on what he has coupled with his skill?

I'm just saying...

[CookinFlat6]

You havent seen those quotes Give me a minute and I'll dig them out.

Whitmarsh's behaviour has changed my view of him. I didnt dislike him initially



Here's one, Bahrain practice:-

"What we've got are very interesting dynamics in this team, and that is that Jenson is very experienced, super smart, great at using his tyres. In truth he's working and operating a team but he really wants to beat his team-mate. I think Lewis is learning as well, but there's no doubt this year has been about tyre pressures, tyre temperatures, really understanding how you get the best out of the tyre, how you get them up to temperature, how you really get the grip at both ends and then of course how you make the tyres last during a weekend."

Whitmarsh said this, this season?

Jenson great at using tyres?
Lewis is learning?
This year is about tyres?
And Jenson is better than Lewis at 'really understanding how you get the best out of the tyre, how you get them up to temperature, how you really get the grip at both ends'

Does this guy ever get his head out of the sand?

Jensons a great driver when the car is perfect, thats an embarrasing thing to be said about a driver. Going fast is a function of how long you are prepared to keep your right foot planted. If you can only do this with a perfect car then it means that your driving ability is missing a key ingredient, confidence in your ability to drive at a cars limits

Jensons USP was supposed to be his ability to use tyres. Now it appears he cannot really do this, all he can do is make tyres last

by not going as fast as the car will go

Jenson arrived at Mclaren, had everything done to make him comfortable at the detriment of Lewis. He then tries to pull an underhand move on Lewis (save fuel) and then changes his story about what happened. If he had just said 'I tried to sneak a win because thats a valid way to beat someone faster' I would have accepted that. And then last year Jenson kicks Lewis when he is down by declaring that he is the number one

Well Jenson, you sowed the wind and now prepare to reap the whirlwind

I have no sympathy and look forward to him assuming his natural position, bleating about 'finding balance' and coming behind better drivers like LH, FA,KR, KK,SP,PM,NR, BS, SV. He should beat Massa though

Ofcourse I stand ready and willing to change my mind if Jenson does step up to the plate and learns how to give 100% no matter how many times the wind changes direction. But after 13 years or whatever?

[Hammer278]

We seem to be going around in circles, everyone, including Jenson acknowledges that Lewis is the better driver when it comes to wrestling a ill handling car... I firmly believe that if McLaren had the perfect car that suited both drivers; Jenson and Lewis would be very close come the end of the season. In a less than perfect car, Lewis would win, I have no doubt (assuming he doesn't crash).

Myown...the voice of reason. I cant argue with anything you've said there. .Jenson has never been my favourite driver, Ive been fairly ambivalent about him. My problem is I'm starting to dislike Jenson, even to not want him to do well. And I dont like this in me. Jenson is doing what he needs to do to achieve as well as he can at Mclaren, and one can't blame him for that. My feeling like this about Jenson is a direct result of Whitmarsh(and I know you differ from me on this one Myown). The more Whitmarsh says Lewis cant save his tyres, the more I want Jenson to fail at it. The more Whitmarsh says Jenson can lead a team and lewis is only learnin, the more I want Lewis to come out on top. The more Whitmarsh waxes lyrical about Jenson and cries when he wins, the more I want Jenson to fail. The more he says Jenson is a wet weather genious, the more I want him to crash in the wet.
I dont like thinking like this and its grossly unfair to Jenson, I realise that. Lewis will always be my favourite and I do think this is a good driver pairing......but .......well you know the but.

I second this completely. Never cared for Jenson one way or another when he joined McLaren and if he was successful in the team I wouldn't bat an eyelid. But it's come to a point where a McLaren DNF for the driver not wearing a yellow helmet is actually almost as sweet as seeing a Ferrari in the same state.

[darwin dali]

We seem to be going around in circles, everyone, including Jenson acknowledges that Lewis is the better driver when it comes to wrestling a ill handling car... I firmly believe that if McLaren had the perfect car that suited both drivers; Jenson and Lewis would be very close come the end of the season. In a less than perfect car, Lewis would win, I have no doubt (assuming he doesn't crash).

Myown...the voice of reason. I cant argue with anything you've said there. .Jenson has never been my favourite driver, Ive been fairly ambivalent about him. My problem is I'm starting to dislike Jenson, even to not want him to do well. And I dont like this in me. Jenson is doing what he needs to do to achieve as well as he can at Mclaren, and one can't blame him for that. My feeling like this about Jenson is a direct result of Whitmarsh(and I know you differ from me on this one Myown). The more Whitmarsh says Lewis cant save his tyres, the more I want Jenson to fail at it. The more Whitmarsh says Jenson can lead a team and lewis is only learnin, the more I want Lewis to come out on top. The more Whitmarsh waxes lyrical about Jenson and cries when he wins, the more I want Jenson to fail. The more he says Jenson is a wet weather genious, the more I want him to crash in the wet.
I dont like thinking like this and its grossly unfair to Jenson, I realise that. Lewis will always be my favourite and I do think this is a good driver pairing......but .......well you know the but.

I second this completely. Never cared for Jenson one way or another when he joined McLaren and if he was successful in the team I wouldn't bat an eyelid. But it's come to a point where a McLaren DNF for the driver not wearing a yellow helmet is actually almost as sweet as seeing a Ferrari in the same state.

A bit harsh

[myownalias]

Over the course of the season, I would say that Jenson suffers the same amount of team originated misfortune, Monaco 2010; a bung was left in Button's radiator duct which ultimately lead to his retirement, last season he only had three wheels on his wagon as he exited the pits, and also retired in Germany with a hydraulic failure. This season in Bahrain, Button had to retire just as he was about to take sixth place due to firstly a puncture then a cracked exhaust/diff. when it comes to mistakes and failures, it's six of one, half dozen of the other. I am a Button fan and always will fight his corner because when he joined McLaren, all the Hamilton fans were crowing about how Lewis would trounce Jenson and it has never happened and I doubt it'll happen this year either.

I acknowledge that Lewis is a the better driver in adverse conditions, even then Jenson still manages to bring the car home in the points at most races. Jenson is more careful with his tyres but his smooth driving style is also to his detriment as he seems to struggle with getting the tyres switched on! Lewis is more agressive and ultimately faster but does burn tyres quicker; and as Whitmarsh has said, Lewis is learning how to be a better leader and learning how to preserve his tyres. Modern F1 is not about being the fastest driver anymore, it's about managing tyres, it's more about tyre strategy than actual racing these days which I believe has taken the thrill way from F1, yes there's more overtaking but drivers are unable to use their full skill and/or car ability because of having to conserve tyres constantly, even qualifying has been compromised with at least two drivers in each Q3 electing to start from 9th/10th rather than use a new set of tyres!

[calvins48]

The inevitable story of what will happen to Lewis and/or McLaren at Monaco. Told using smileys.

Forgot one.

I left that one out because only babies do that.

[calvins48]

You havent seen those quotes Give me a minute and I'll dig them out.

Whitmarsh's behaviour has changed my view of him. I didnt dislike him initially



Here's one, Bahrain practice:-

"What we've got are very interesting dynamics in this team, and that is that Jenson is very experienced, super smart, great at using his tyres. In truth he's working and operating a team but he really wants to beat his team-mate. I think Lewis is learning as well, but there's no doubt this year has been about tyre pressures, tyre temperatures, really understanding how you get the best out of the tyre, how you get them up to temperature, how you really get the grip at both ends and then of course how you make the tyres last during a weekend."

Honestly RC, I don't think you really needed to bother.

By the way, I understand your admission about Jenson. I too never really cared how he factored as a driver...that is, until he came to McLaren. When he arrived, I knew the deal—he was there to help the team back to the WCC. Lewis couldn't do it by himself, Heikki wasn't capable and Alonso didn't stay. Beyond the WCC, my expectations of Jenson winning a WDC before or while Lewis is at McLaren is nil. Assuming of course that everything stays the same and they are/remain equal (barring any conspiracies ). My reasoning is, in this business/sport of F1, the cars will always be a moving target (pardon the pun) in terms of design, much a function of the technical regs. With that said, it will always be about who is best at taming the beast he is given. The best drivers are the most capable and we see that as evidence today so no need to even mention names. Where Jenson's name gets mentioned a lot is on the odd Sunday when the car is perfect or conditions change and he catches the sweetspot just right. Honestly...1.How often does that happen and 2.Over the course of a long 20 race campaign, how often can a team rely on that? So, though I'm not fighting off all comers to be at the front of the Jenson Fan Club line, I want...no, need him to do well, the best he can to help the team wrestle back the WCC to Woking. The WDC is another issue for him because in a year like this when both he and Lewis have their game face on, he's not only losing to him, but Jenson also has the other drivers to contend with and he's losing to them in a superior car. The one thing he has going for him is that, statistically (if you have a Mathematician's tendencies) Lewis will suffer from other cockups during the season which will cost him points so that will keep the points tally a bit closer on paper than they really are all things considered.

Right, so what we know is, our Jens has the exact same good car as Lewis but can't figure it out. He did well in race one when the other teams were caught on their back foot. After five races, the others have whittled away the advantage and so the difference makers will be the cream that rises to the top. We're seeing that in Lewis, Alonso, Vettel and Kimi is starting to show me something. Question is, can Jenson join this elite group based on what he has coupled with his skill?

I'm just saying...

Jenson was underrated when he was at BAR and is now a tad overrated thanks to his WDC with Brawn. Let's be honest, that car was miles ahead of the field at the beginning of the season and had it not been for that double diffuser, he wouldn't have done so well. Yes, you can say that about any driver but looking back, he didn't exactly blow the helmets off the over drivers. Just my opinion on that last line by the way.
And think about last season. He was overrated again because he beat Lewis. But he only beat Lewis because Lewis' life was twisted up at the time and he struggled to focus. Now look at this season. It's one of the closest in the sport's history and Lewis is ahead of Jenson. Why? Because Lewis is in a good place at the moment.

I think that Jenson is a supreme driver (I'd have him on my F1 team) but I think that when he does well, it's rated too highly and then Lewis is rated badly. It's like we expect Lewis to win and are surprised when he doesn't and then we expect Jenson to get in the top 5 and are surprised when he gets a podium or a win.

[calvins48]

Over the course of the season, I would say that Jenson suffers the same amount of team originated misfortune, Monaco 2010; a bung was left in Button's radiator duct which ultimately lead to his retirement, last season he only had three wheels on his wagon as he exited the pits, and also retired in Germany with a hydraulic failure. This season in Bahrain, Button had to retire just as he was about to take sixth place due to firstly a puncture then a cracked exhaust/diff. when it comes to mistakes and failures, it's six of one, half dozen of the other. I am a Button fan and always will fight his corner because when he joined McLaren, all the Hamilton fans were crowing about how Lewis would trounce Jenson and it has never happened and I doubt it'll happen this year either.

I acknowledge that Lewis is a the better driver in adverse conditions, even then Jenson still manages to bring the car home in the points at most races. Jenson is more careful with his tyres but his smooth driving style is also to his detriment as he seems to struggle with getting the tyres switched on! Lewis is more agressive and ultimately faster but does burn tyres quicker; and as Whitmarsh has said, Lewis is learning how to be a better leader and learning how to preserve his tyres. Modern F1 is not about being the fastest driver anymore, it's about managing tyres, it's more about tyre strategy than actual racing these days which I believe has taken the thrill way from F1, yes there's more overtaking but drivers are unable to use their full skill and/or car ability because of having to conserve tyres constantly, even qualifying has been compromised with at least two drivers in each Q3 electing to start from 9th/10th rather than use a new set of tyres!

There should be a rule that says all drivers have to run in Q3.

[darwin dali]

Over the course of the season, I would say that Jenson suffers the same amount of team originated misfortune, Monaco 2010; a bung was left in Button's radiator duct which ultimately lead to his retirement, last season he only had three wheels on his wagon as he exited the pits, and also retired in Germany with a hydraulic failure. This season in Bahrain, Button had to retire just as he was about to take sixth place due to firstly a puncture then a cracked exhaust/diff. when it comes to mistakes and failures, it's six of one, half dozen of the other. I am a Button fan and always will fight his corner because when he joined McLaren, all the Hamilton fans were crowing about how Lewis would trounce Jenson and it has never happened and I doubt it'll happen this year either.

I acknowledge that Lewis is a the better driver in adverse conditions, even then Jenson still manages to bring the car home in the points at most races. Jenson is more careful with his tyres but his smooth driving style is also to his detriment as he seems to struggle with getting the tyres switched on! Lewis is more agressive and ultimately faster but does burn tyres quicker; and as Whitmarsh has said, Lewis is learning how to be a better leader and learning how to preserve his tyres. Modern F1 is not about being the fastest driver anymore, it's about managing tyres, it's more about tyre strategy than actual racing these days which I believe has taken the thrill way from F1, yes there's more overtaking but drivers are unable to use their full skill and/or car ability because of having to conserve tyres constantly, even qualifying has been compromised with at least two drivers in each Q3 electing to start from 9th/10th rather than use a new set of tyres!

There should be a rule that says all drivers have to run in Q3.

With a minimum speed?

[racechick]

Over the course of the season, I would say that Jenson suffers the same amount of team originated misfortune, Monaco 2010; a bung was left in Button's radiator duct which ultimately lead to his retirement, last season he only had three wheels on his wagon as he exited the pits, and also retired in Germany with a hydraulic failure. This season in Bahrain, Button had to retire just as he was about to take sixth place due to firstly a puncture then a cracked exhaust/diff. when it comes to mistakes and failures, it's six of one, half dozen of the other. I am a Button fan and always will fight his corner because when he joined McLaren, all the Hamilton fans were crowing about how Lewis would trounce Jenson and it has never happened and I doubt it'll happen this year either.

I acknowledge that Lewis is a the better driver in adverse conditions, even then Jenson still manages to bring the car home in the points at most races. Jenson is more careful with his tyres but his smooth driving style is also to his detriment as he seems to struggle with getting the tyres switched on! Lewis is more agressive and ultimately faster but does burn tyres quicker; and as Whitmarsh has said, Lewis is learning how to be a better leader and learning how to preserve his tyres. Modern F1 is not about being the fastest driver anymore, it's about managing tyres, it's more about tyre strategy than actual racing these days which I believe has taken the thrill way from F1, yes there's more overtaking but drivers are unable to use their full skill and/or car ability because of having to conserve tyres constantly, even qualifying has been compromised with at least two drivers in each Q3 electing to start from 9th/10th rather than use a new set of tyres!

But those adversities you've mentioned about jens, Lewis has had that many in this season alone!!

Jenson is more careful with his tyres

Not last race he wasnt. lewis was the only two stopper.


Modern F1 is not about being the fastest driver anymore, it's about managing tyres, it's more about tyre strategy than actual racing these days which I believe has taken the thrill way from F1, yes there's more overtaking but drivers are unable to use their full skill and/or car ability because of having to conserve tyres constantly, even qualifying has been compromised with at least two drivers in each Q3 electing to start from 9th/10th rather than use a new set of tyres

Agree completely with this!!!

[myownalias]

But those adversities you've mentioned about jens, Lewis has had that many in this season alone!!

Jenson is more careful with his tyres

Not last race he wasnt. lewis was the only two stopper.

Yes JB had a shocker in the last race, Jenson does tend to have a run of good results then performs like a first year rookie in one race! I'm a JB fan but I am not blinkered! Lewis did well in Spain to run a two stopper, it shows how Lewis is learning about tyre management, previously Lewis was an all or nothing kind of driver, I believe he is becoming a more rounded driver over time!

[acosmichippo]

Jenson is more careful with his tyres

Not last race he wasnt. lewis was the only two stopper.

You do realize it takes more than one race to establish a trend, right? yes, it shows improvement, but the fact that Jenson has historically managed his tired better than Lewis is not suddenly reversed.

[racechick]

Jenson is more careful with his tyres

Not last race he wasnt. lewis was the only two stopper.

You do realize it takes more than one race to establish a trend, right? yes, it shows improvement, but the fact that Jenson has historically managed his tired better than Lewis is not suddenly reversed.

Yes, Im aware how trends are established. What Im not convinced of though is the fact that Lewis cant manage his tyres.

[cheekybru]

Jenson is more careful with his tyres

Not last race he wasnt. lewis was the only two stopper.

You do realize it takes more than one race to establish a trend, right? yes, it shows improvement, but the fact that Jenson has historically managed his tired better than Lewis is not suddenly reversed.

Yes, Im aware how trends are established. What Im not convinced of though is the fact that Lewis cant manage his tyres.

Agreed, when hes going flat out his tires go down faster than jensons, thats because hes going faster than jenson lol, i really dont get people who say he cant look after them, and i think spain proves he can with the best of them, considering before the race a pirelli guy said a 2 stopper would be "impossible"