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[overboost]

Whaddaloadofcrap OB.

So McLaren had the Merc engine this year... how did that "hold" them back? Every single name on your list has very much a self serving interest, not for the sake of competition as you so blindly put it. Did you miss the part above where Boiler's boss said he wanted nothing less than total domination as Mclaren had in 88 and Mercedes had this year?

McLaren was a customer team in 2014, do you actually think that Merc is giving their customers the same package that they run?! And yes of course all the parties have their own interests in mind, it is just one of them though that is against innovation and competition.

Yes, Dennis/McLaren wants total domination but with an open formula that allows competition. Compare to Wolfe/Mercedes who wants to continue total domination but with a closed formula that freezes competition. Can you spot the difference in the two approaches? One of them is aloadofcrap!

[What's Burning?]

Whaddaloadofcrap OB.

So McLaren had the Merc engine this year... how did that "hold" them back? Every single name on your list has very much a self serving interest, not for the sake of competition as you so blindly put it. Did you miss the part above where Boiler's boss said he wanted nothing less than total domination as Mclaren had in 88 and Mercedes had this year?

McLaren was a customer team last year, do you actually think that Merc is giving their customers the same package that they run?! And yes of course all the parties have their own interests in mind, it is just one of them though that is against innovation and competition.

Yes, Dennis/McLaren wants total domination but with an open formula that allows competition. Compare to Wolfe/Mercedes who wants to continue total domination but with a closed formula that freezes competition. Can you spot the difference in the two approaches?

The formula is open. We've had the discussion already. Only the teams that have were left pud in hand are complaining. Williams certainly did well last year with a fraction of McLaren's budget and the Mercedes engine, why were they able to do that?

If you ask me, it's your repetitive echos of the whines of loser teams and team principals that are the embarrassment in the sport. It's their effort that came up short in innovation and competition and they will now pay the price for that over the next couple of years as they eventually come to parity with the Mercedes effort. I'm going to enjoy the next couple of years cheering for the potential 4 time WDC till then.

[overboost]

Whaddaloadofcrap OB.

So McLaren had the Merc engine this year... how did that "hold" them back? Every single name on your list has very much a self serving interest, not for the sake of competition as you so blindly put it. Did you miss the part above where Boiler's boss said he wanted nothing less than total domination as Mclaren had in 88 and Mercedes had this year?

McLaren was a customer team last year, do you actually think that Merc is giving their customers the same package that they run?! And yes of course all the parties have their own interests in mind, it is just one of them though that is against innovation and competition.

Yes, Dennis/McLaren wants total domination but with an open formula that allows competition. Compare to Wolfe/Mercedes who wants to continue total domination but with a closed formula that freezes competition. Can you spot the difference in the two approaches?

The formula is open. We've had the discussion already. Only the teams that have were left pud in hand are complaining. Williams certainly did well last year with a fraction of McLaren's budget and the Mercedes engine, why were they able to do that?

If you ask me, it's your repetitive echos of the whines of loser teams and team principals that are the embarrassment in the sport. It's their effort that came up short in innovation and competition and they will now pay the price for that over the next couple of years as they eventually come to parity with the Mercedes effort. I'm going to enjoy the next couple of years cheering for the potential 4 time WDC till then.

Ha, frozen must be the term for open in Mercedes slang! If they were allowed the other teams imo would have already started closing the gap to Merc but with the engines frozen the gap stayed the same for the whole season. Unheard of really until the freeze years that teams could not advance at all.

And is winning a wdc in a regulated one team/two driver competition really worth as much? Any of the top half dozen or so drivers imo probably would have won the wdc if they were in Hamilton's place in 2014. The Merc is just a magic carpet ride to the wdc!

[sagi58]

Wrong. It was a big secret until Luca blabbed that he wanted more special favours. Only then were teams aware of the veto...

Actually...

 wrote:">Rivals: We knew and accepted Ferrari's veto power

Friday 22nd May 2009

While the more cynical of us may believe that recent headlines of Ferrari's veto power are an attempt by Max Mosley to cause dissent in FOTA, rival team bosses have revealed that not only did they know about it, but that they also accept Ferrari's position of first among equals.

Last Friday's meeting between FOTA and Mosley saw Ferrari's veto power over Formula One's technical regulations make headlines, sparking a general outcry from F1 fans, who feel that it is unfair that the Scuderia were handed such power - and extra money - for just being in F1.

However, rival BMW team boss Mario Theissen has revealed that this is old news, adding that the German outfit accepts the deal as it allows Ferrari the power to stand up for what FOTA wants...

...Sir Frank Williams added that he accepts Ferrari's deal with the FIA, who was struck in 2005,as the Scuderia are the sport's "backbone."...

[racechick]

Whaddaloadofcrap OB.

So McLaren had the Merc engine this year... how did that "hold" them back? Every single name on your list has very much a self serving interest, not for the sake of competition as you so blindly put it. Did you miss the part above where Boullier's boss said he wanted nothing less than total domination as McLaren had in 88 and Mercedes had this year? Domination, Ferrari had it for a few year, then Renault, then Red Bull, now that Mercedes has it, domination is a dirty word and must be eradicated for the sake of competition.

Well you know what? Suck it losers, enjoy the feeling of struggling as bottom feeders! Make a better attempt at a race car next year.

I'm liking the feeling of supporting a team and driver that certainly didn't once whine about how tough the sport was... they built a better car. If only the other teams would spend more time doing just that we'd see more competition.

yes! This^ get with this!

[The Second Coming]

I'm infringing on copyrights here but... such fun!

Always happy to share, mate.

[sagi58]

...Every single name on your list has very much a self serving interest, not for the sake of competition as you so blindly put it...

And, Mercedes is different? How?

[What's Burning?]

...Every single name on your list has very much a self serving interest, not for the sake of competition as you so blindly put it...

And, Mercedes is different? How?

They're winning not whining, that's how they're different. They didn't spend the years during the Red Bull dominance complaining, they spent those years building and focused on the 2014 season. Seems to me the teams complaining now missed a very important lesson.

Anyway, Hamilton is so brilliant to have left McLaren when he did. Maybe Alonso will be so lucky.

[sagi58]

...Every single name on your list has very much a self serving interest, not for the sake of competition as you so blindly put it...

And, Mercedes is different? How?

They're winning not whining, that's how they're different. They didn't spend the years during the Red Bull dominance complaining, they spent those years building and focused on the 2014 season. Seems to me the teams complaining now missed a very important lesson...

And, that surprises you how? They won, in case you hadn't heard. And, currently, the ball is in their court and they are basically holding it hostage.

As for the years of the Red Bull dominance, bully for Mercedes that they were developing their Turbo engine! Very interesting that the budget they used to do that doesn't reflect the untold millions spent in developing their technology for their road cars, which is oh, so "coincidentally" similar!!

Yup, Mercedes is just squeaky clean when it comes to F1 politics. They didn't threaten to leave F1, if this new technology wasn't allowed. They aren't insisting they are oh, so altruistic in insisting the freeze not be lifted. I know, let's nominate them for sainthood!!

[What's Burning?]

No sainthood, thank you for offering though. I'm simply enjoying seeing a team I respect and the driver I support both win the championship. That's reward enough for me.

[What's Burning?]

[overboost]

...Every single name on your list has very much a self serving interest, not for the sake of competition as you so blindly put it...

And, Mercedes is different? How?

They're winning not whining, that's how they're different. They didn't spend the years during the Red Bull dominance complaining, they spent those years building and focused on the 2014 season. Seems to me the teams complaining now missed a very important lesson...

And, that surprises you how? They won, in case you hadn't heard. And, currently, the ball is in their court and they are basically holding it hostage.

As for the years of the Red Bull dominance, bully for Mercedes that they were developing their Turbo engine! Very interesting that the budget they used to do that doesn't reflect the untold millions spent in developing their technology for their road cars, which is oh, so "coincidentally" similar!!

Yup, Mercedes is just squeaky clean when it comes to F1 politics. They didn't threaten to leave F1, if this new technology wasn't allowed. They aren't insisting they are oh, so altruistic in insisting the freeze not be lifted. I know, let's nominate them for sainthood!!

Interesting that Mercedes started developing their turbo soo far back. A person with a suspicious mind might think that the engine rules were written around Merc specifications. Interesting.

[overboost]

...Every single name on your list has very much a self serving interest, not for the sake of competition as you so blindly put it...

And, Mercedes is different? How?

They're winning not whining, that's how they're different. They didn't spend the years during the Red Bull dominance complaining, they spent those years building and focused on the 2014 season. Seems to me the teams complaining now missed a very important lesson.

Anyway, Hamilton is so brilliant to have left McLaren when he did. Maybe Alonso will be so lucky.

They are whining with the best of them, threatening to leave F1 if their precious engine freeze is lifted! Lauda is quite outspoken about it.

[racechick]

It isn't 'their engine freeze', it's limited development that was agreed by all. But Ferrari and renault can't manage the limited development on offer. How on earth do you expect them to cope in a free for all?

But fair do's to renault, I haven't heard whinning and moaning from them, they seem to be trying to get to grips with their shortcomings.

And the reason Mercedes started their engine so early was because they had Brawn and Brawn had a plan. He ran the hybrid programme with a completely different team alongside the racing team. Mercedes also realised how Important it was yo work closely with the oil/petrol people( Petronas) . I was laughed at when I posted an article about that by a now absent member, told it would make little difference, yet renault and Ferrari are now realising it does make a difference....but they're a little late to the party. It's no good blaming Merc for other engine manufacturers shortfalls. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

[CookinFlat6]

The good thing is that, apart from Ferrari, all the other teams are realistic about needing t work a lot harder to improve their chances of competing better

Heres a team thats been around 4 times as long as RBR, who understand things saying they must try harder

While it certainly didn't help, Monisha Kaltenborn has admitted that Sauber's poor season in 2014 can not solely be blamed on their Ferrari engines.
Sauber failed to score a point for the first time in 22 seasons in F1, but the reasons for this were not solely down to the Ferrari power unit.
"After the season we had, we have to be very blunt and simple about this; we never expected it would end up like this," Kaltenborn told Autosport.
"The overall package was just not good enough and we have to learn from this and go ahead.

And then you have a team that have been around second longest with another real world comment, Ron says reliability is their key to compete, nothing about engine freezes or unfair competition because of using a driver to test V6 parts in the V8 days. Indeed Ron says the performance is impressive. Maybe Merc should complain about reliability as Ferrari were very reliable, thats hardly fair now on Merc or Honda when Ferrari have such an advantage

Although they have been working on their V6 turbo hybrid power unit for two years already, it won't be easy with McLaren CEO Dennis warning that reliability will be key to their ability to compete next year.
"The challenge for our partner Honda is hitting dates and reliability," he is quoted as saying by ESPNF1. "The performance is pretty impressive but of course I can't share that with you."

And over in lalaland, when the media or the opiated fans are not looking, no ones blaming the engine regs or claiming they were held back from competing, infact they are even admiting they have messed up 2015 as well ALL BY THEMSELVES

admitted during the annual Christmas media briefing that "2014 for Ferrari was a huge disaster" adding: "We must forget 2014. I don't want to talk about 2014."
He added: "We started late with the 2015 car, certain choices and strategies that were made by others and that, in retrospect, I don't necessarily share.

but hold on, whats this? lets confirm the reason this team has NEVER been able to compete without the odds stacked in its favour (even then still had to get lucky in 5 years out of 50)

"Not to underestimate the significance or the magnitude of the task, I think Ferrari can probably get to the same place (as Mercedes) by the end of 2015. Some of the work has already started. We need to be able to emulate their success."

So lalaland admit they messed up their own sh!t, then admit that they are working hard on EMULATING Merc, then set a deadline for this emulation, AND THEN turn around to the opiated "followers" to tell them they are been held back and that is why they are noncompetitive

Even the second best driver on the grid sees through the sham of the 'usual tune' that is the perfume, sunglasses and handbags company that pretends to make serious racing cars

Besides Fernando was tired of the usual tune: 'You'll see, the next one will be the winning car."

History tells us that even if you give Ferrari everything they might imagine they need, they would still need a few years of staff stability with French and English motorsport experts running the show before any success is even vaguely likely. But for now lets do the whole tragic-opera revolving door shebang and moan about unfair Merc

NO ONE CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!