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[Gaz]

Where can you draw the line between confidence and arrogance?

when someone achives what he did.

[What's Burning?]

No doubt, Vettel should walking away with the WDC. He definitely has the "potential" (the car + him). But stuff has happened and so he is fighting with the rest. Including Webber, who is having the best run of his life... compared to Vettel who is having a poor one... so, Webber on his best, is about as good as Vettel on a poor one...

Oh, we back on that again? That's a faulty argument as far as I'm concerned, based on that logic you could argue that the McLaren boys are both better placed because with their clearly inferior car, and their mediocre runs due to some back racing luck they're still both very much in contention.

[forzafred]

Not really - he just needs a haircut

[The Immortal Dragon]

Where can you draw the line between confidence and arrogance?

when someone achives what he did.

So arrogance and confidence depend uniquely upon success? I don't think so..

[What's Burning?]

Where can you draw the line between confidence and arrogance?

when someone achives what he did.

So arrogance and confidence depend uniquely upon success? I don't think so..

For some reason women are much better able than men to determine the difference between arrogance and confidence.

[Gaz]

Where can you draw the line between confidence and arrogance?

when someone achives what he did.

So arrogance and confidence depend uniquely upon success? I don't think so..

no, but in his case he was being confident not cocky or arrogant beacause he was sucesfull.

He belived in himself.

[Big Azza]

Senna wasn't arrogant.

your confusing arrogance and confidence.

oh and


LOL

Mate, I almost wet myself at this comment. In what way do you think Senna confidence is different to Vettel's arrogance? Where's the line draw?

Suzuka 1989 and 1990 were both his fault. And he played the victim? This is arrogance because Sebastien does the same thing when things don't go his way, and you all say it's his arrogance.

In both 1989 and 1990 Senna was the driver behind, today you would label a driver and idiot if he attempted the same move. Yet Senna is a driver who I have utmost respect for.

Why you guys dismiss drivers just because of their personality beats me...

Hey - I'd be happy with "yeah, the guy's talented." Because that's a fact. Who dares to go against this true statement?

When you compare his pre-F1 stats to Hamilton, sure he is not as good. But the guy is fast. Faster than Hamilton in my opinion. The guy can overtake, obviously not as good as Hamilton but consider this stat: In 08 Monaco Vettel qualified 19th and finished 5th. In 09 Hamilton qualified 16th and finished 12th. Obviously a rash conclusion to make seeing as that McLaren was one dog of a car, but I like it.


EDIT - Damn it - I've busted my arse for the past hour watching Youtube videos a researching stat to prove how good Vettel is, and a who conversation has been posted in the mean time?

Where can you draw the line between confidence and arrogance?

when someone achives what he did.

So what you're saying here Gaz is that once Vettel wins 3 world championships (at the end of this year he could have secured 2, but might still have 0 at this rate...) then his arrogance will miraculously change to confidence?

Do tell....

[The Immortal Dragon]

So who can be an example of an arrogant F1 driver? (not vettel!)
Somebody NOT successful, I take it..?

Where can you draw the line between confidence and arrogance?

when someone achives what he did.

So arrogance and confidence depend uniquely upon success? I don't think so..

For some reason women are much better able than men to determine the difference between arrogance and confidence.

That's true, actually.

[f1ea]

No doubt, Vettel should walking away with the WDC. He definitely has the "potential" (the car + him). But stuff has happened and so he is fighting with the rest. Including Webber, who is having the best run of his life... compared to Vettel who is having a poor one... so, Webber on his best, is about as good as Vettel on a poor one...

Oh, we back on that again? That's a faulty argument as far as I'm concerned, based on that logic you could argue that the McLaren boys are both better placed because with their clearly inferior car, and their mediocre runs due to some back racing luck they're still both very much in contention.

Hmmm... better placed in the WDC?
No doubt. With the mediocre car they're in, they are bringing the fight to the top car. But not based on them needing or doing their best job... Just based on Vettel making mistakes. with the cars they have... the Maccas and Alonso need their best job to win it. Vettel needs simply to not make mistakes, and Webber has needed and will need his best to top the standings.

Where can you draw the line between confidence and arrogance?

when someone achives what he did.

So arrogance and confidence depend uniquely upon success? I don't think so..

For some reason women are much better able than men to determine the difference between arrogance and confidence.

Some guys are not arrogant, still are confident. Barrichello is confident, not arrogant. So is webber and Kubica. And I also think Vettel is not arrogant. But neither has won a WDC, so i guess its easy for them not to look or appear arrogant. Give them multiple WDCs and i bet they'd be on lots of people's black list.

But if you listen to Vettel, Alonso, Button, kubica, Rosberg, Kimi... anytime they talk, you see there's hardly any arrogant statement. There's a certain other fella, on the other hand....

[f1ea]

Senna wasn't arrogant.

your confusing arrogance and confidence.

oh and


LOL

Mate, I almost wet myself at this comment. In what way do you think Senna confidence is different to Vettel's arrogance? Where's the line draw?

Suzuka 1989 and 1990 were both his fault. And he played the victim? This is arrogance because Sebastien does the same thing when things don't go his way, and you all say it's his arrogance.

In both 1989 and 1990 Senna was the driver behind, today you would label a driver and idiot if he attempted the same move. Yet Senna is a driver who I have utmost respect for.

Why you guys dismiss drivers just because of their personality beats me...

Hey - I'd be happy with "yeah, the guy's talented." Because that's a fact. Who dares to go against this true statement?

When you compare his pre-F1 stats to Hamilton, sure he is not as good. But the guy is fast. Faster than Hamilton in my opinion. The guy can overtake, obviously not as good as Hamilton but consider this stat: In 08 Monaco Vettel qualified 19th and finished 5th. In 09 Hamilton qualified 16th and finished 12th. Obviously a rash conclusion to make seeing as that McLaren was one dog of a car, but I like it.


EDIT - Damn it - I've busted my arse for the past hour watching Youtube videos a researching stat to prove how good Vettel is, and a who conversation has been posted in the mean time?

Where can you draw the line between confidence and arrogance?

when someone achives what he did.

So what you're saying here Gaz is that once Vettel wins 3 world championships (at the end of this year he could have secured 2, but might still have 0 at this rate...) then his arrogance will miraculously change to confidence?

Do tell....

[Peng]

Hey apparently the greatest driver in history, according to everyone on this site, had 65 Pole Positions and "only" 41 Race wins. He also was quite arrogant.

Sebastien Vettel has had 12 pole positions and only 7 wins, so he's a lot worse, but eventually he will improve. Wait until he gets 65 pole positions. He should be there within a few more years.

There was a pretty big difference between Senna and Vettel, Senna was a very complete driver where as Vettel is still very much a rookie in terms of experience and it shows in the fact he still hasn't perfected several aspects of his driving.

I really have an issue on this sight with unfounded bias.

Not sure if this statement is at all aimed at my posts because i wouldn't call anything i have posted unfounded bias infact spending 5 minutes checking previous races it is pretty clear Vettel's only real strong point is qualifying, i would actually say peoples ignorant claims to his perfection in all aspects of racing is unfounded bias because so far he hasn't proven any of the claims of his greatness.

When you compare his pre-F1 stats to Hamilton, sure he is not as good. But the guy is fast. Faster than Hamilton in my opinion. The guy can overtake, obviously not as good as Hamilton but consider this stat: In 08 Monaco Vettel qualified 19th and finished 5th. In 09 Hamilton qualified 16th and finished 12th. Obviously a rash conclusion to make seeing as that McLaren was one dog of a car, but I like it.

I personally cant remember that race in 08 but if you can provide evidence that Vettel indeed climbed those places by overtaking and did so by overtaking drivers in similar speed cars than i will admit that is probably the best race he has ever had, i however would imagine he did so through pitstops which i would guarantee were planned by the team and had nothing to do with Vettel.

Last season and the current season at the times he has been behind he hasn't really proven any kind of skill at overtaking except when it comes to overtaking cars which are much much slower than his, add that to the fact he cant keep his emotions in check when driving and generally starts driving like crap when something goes wrong, this to me shows he isn't a complete enough driver yet to be competing for the championship let alone winning it especially when drivers who are currently better than him haven't currently or ever been given much of a chance to win a WDC.

The fact is both red bull drivers have been blessed with the amazing piece of engineering that is the RB6 something very very few drivers will ever get in an entire career and they are throwing it away so the only way i could really complement Vettel this season would be if he was winning the championship by 100 points at this time in the season.

Funny that i seem to be bashing Vettel so much even though i like him as a driver and want him to win some WDC in the future but i still just don't think he has proven he deserves to win and i don't follow sports to see the worst team win by default.

[f1ea]

Well, Webber has actually been worse at overtaking. And still, he is having the best season in his life.

Could it be, there is something in the 'amazing machinery' that is the RB that signifficantly drops performance when trailing a car??
Could there be something in the 'dog of a car' Mclaren that allows better performance when trailing another car??

Have you noticed that the RB strenght is Aero dymanic... while the MP4s since several yrs back have been very strong in mechanical grip (not to mention KERS and the Fduct)?

Which would provide better overtaking possibilities?

[elfinitty]

Not really - he just needs a haircut

No,i like his hair

And,
Doesnt matter how succesful he is,he would annoy lots of people.He seems to be cocky plus a bit arrogant.Still not very rude though.

Where can you draw the line between confidence and arrogance?

when someone achives what he did.

So arrogance and confidence depend uniquely upon success? I don't think so..

no, but in his case he was being confident not cocky or arrogant beacause he was sucesfull.

He belived in himself.

His team is cosseting him and his fans love him so much thats what makes him spoilt plus he might have a spoilt and arrogant character thats why his behaviors are so annoying.

For some reason women are much better able than men to determine the difference between arrogance and confidence.

Yeah,i am able to do that very well

[racechick]

Not really - he just needs a haircut

No,i like his hair

And,
Doesnt matter how succesful he is,he would annoy lots of people.He seems to be cocky plus a bit arrogant.Still not very rude though.

Where can you draw the line between confidence and arrogance?

when someone achives what he did.

So arrogance and confidence depend uniquely upon success? I don't think so..

no, but in his case he was being confident not cocky or arrogant beacause he was sucesfull.

He belived in himself.

His team is cosseting him and his fans love him so much thats what makes him spoilt plus he might have a spoilt and arrogant character thats why his behaviors are so annoying.

For some reason women are much better able than men to determine the difference between arrogance and confidence.

Yeah,i am able to do that very well

Me too Elfinitty! And I have three prime candidates on my list for arrogance. They are drivers I dislike, and its because of their attitude not their driving. However, if I placed those three in order of arrogance, it would not correspond to the order in which I currently dislike them.
Do you have three candidates for the arrogance podium? I wonder if they would be the same as mine??

[The Immortal Dragon]

Could we know who they are?