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[Denthúl]

Completely unfair. I mean, it's not really as though Barrichello and Piquet had much of a choice. Barrichello was promised the world by Stewart, but things didn't work out. In fact, they were bloody terrible. With his career getting on a bit, moving to Ferrari was the least worst option available to him. Piquet's case is a bit different, in that he was young enough to have waited another year and because his father could have pulled a few strings. But, at the end of the day, Formula One seats are not opportunities which arise on a daily basis, and he was at the right age and had sufficient credentials for entering Formula One, so you can't really fault him for joining Renault.

Where else could Rubens go? At the time, Ferrari and McLaren were the only two teams consistently capable of challenging for wins and titles.

I don't blame Piquet for going to Renault as having won two titles only two years earlier they still looked a good prospect and we all know what Hamilton did at McLaren. Had he been paired with Fisichella, I'm sure things would look different. Maybe not massively, but it would be significant.

[EwanM]

That isn't my point though. I have nothing against either Barrichello or Piquet joining these teams. However they surely knew what lay in store for them and would have known that they would have to just get on with it.

Now Barrichello, for example, is writing a "warts and all" book about it. He knew he would never be equal number one with Schumacher and he knew, certainly from previous teammates, that he would never get the same treatment or attention as Schumacher. Barrichello took his opportunity, he won a few races and drove well, but he can't complain now that "oh Ferrari were bad to me" - ridiculous. The guy has more money than i'll ever see and is still driving... in a fast car! What more could he have asked for? Alot of that was down to his time at Ferrari. AND, as we've seen this year, when he's had the "shackles off" and been equal number one in a team he hasn't been able to do the job. Yes alot of his problems harp back to reliability, but surely Button isn't getting favoured over there. Or is he?

For Piquet, yes he had to take his opportunity, but I was arguing against racechick's original point. He can't blame the team and the way it goes about its business because it would always be towards Alonso. Plus Piquet hasn't exactly helped himself in anyway with some of his performances.

Maybe the team could have been slightly more helpful or understanding. Yet they've given him a reprieve this weekend and probably on countless other occasions so what more can they do? Would anyone in their right mind divert his or hers team away from Alonso and focus on Piquet? Quite simply... NO

[racechick]

That isn't my point though. I have nothing against either Barrichello or Piquet joining these teams. However they surely knew what lay in store for them and would have known that they would have to just get on with it.

Now Barrichello, for example, is writing a "warts and all" book about it. He knew he would never be equal number one with Schumacher and he knew, certainly from previous teammates, that he would never get the same treatment or attention as Schumacher. Barrichello took his opportunity, he won a few races and drove well, but he can't complain now that "oh Ferrari were bad to me" - ridiculous.

For Piquet, yes he had to take his opportunity, but I was arguing against racechick's original point. He can't blame the team and the way it goes about its business because it would always be towards Alonso. Plus Piquet hasn't exactly helped himself in anyway with some of his performances.

Maybe the team could have been slightly more helpful or understanding. Yet they've given him a reprieve this weekend and probably on countless other occasions so what more can they do? Would anyone in their right mind divert his or hers team away from Alonso and focus on Piquet? Quite simply... NO

Not suggesting they divert anything away from Alonso, he's obviously their main shot at doing well. But there's no need to go to the other extreme. Alonso was practically blown away by a rookie at McLaren(relatively speaking if you take experience into account) and look how he reacted. Renault was gagging to get him back. And Alonso sure as hell wasnt gonna have another rookie keeping him honest. He'd tried everything at McLaren to get preferential treatment. What terms do you reckon he went back to renault on??
Agreeing to unfair terms and then living them week in week out are two different things. Yes Brrichelo knew what he was getting into, he knew it in his head but to keep experiencing it, thats why he's so paranoid now. And I just wonder what this has done to Piquet

[EwanM]

Well if they couldn't cope they knew where the door was... or in Piquet's case is...

Regardless of what happened in 2007, it isn't like Renault bolted weights to Piquet's car to slow him down. He had every chance to be successful. Especially in 2008. He is now under serious pressure and probably not given attention by the team because he is a lost cause to many at Enstone. I expected more from this season, as did the team... how wrong we were.

Alonso came back to Renault on the terms of the Number One Driver, again Nelson would have known about this when signing.

[EwanM]

Hey I've got behind Piquet on a number of occasions, and still hope he does well.
Certainly for the team's perspective, but also his. Hopefully his F1 career isn't over, but if it is he has himself to blame because he had all of the right credentials. Hell his battle with Hamilton in Turkey showed that he may still have it, if he could iron out these stupid mistakes.

However if Alonso does leave, which I think is now less and less likely until 2011 at least, and they have a line up of Grojean and Piquet next season, will somebody take a gun to me?

I doubt Roman could lead the team in his debut year... that would leave Nelson.

[myownalias]

Not suggesting they divert anything away from Alonso, he's obviously their main shot at doing well. But there's no need to go to the other extreme. Alonso was practically blown away by a rookie at McLaren(relatively speaking if you take experience into account) and look how he reacted. Renault was gagging to get him back. And Alonso sure as hell wasnt gonna have another rookie keeping him honest. He'd tried everything at McLaren to get preferential treatment. What terms do you reckon he went back to renault on??
Agreeing to unfair terms and then living them week in week out are two different things. Yes Brrichelo knew what he was getting into, he knew it in his head but to keep experiencing it, thats why he's so paranoid now. And I just wonder what this has done to Piquet

I really couldn't agree more; this is the main reason I dislike Alonso, he doesn't like being an equal #1 driver; as proved by his year at McLaren. We don't know the extent of what has happened behind closed doors at Renault. Maybe a lot of Piquet's mishaps have been because his is pushing the machinery too hard in a bid to keep up and ends up off the road or into the back of someone else because he has been given an inferior car to his team mate, that's tantamount to team orders in my mind, give both drivers equal equipment and see who comes out on top; that's why I like the Ron Dennis way of working, let the drivers duke it out on the track!

[EwanM]

Not suggesting they divert anything away from Alonso, he's obviously their main shot at doing well. But there's no need to go to the other extreme. Alonso was practically blown away by a rookie at McLaren(relatively speaking if you take experience into account) and look how he reacted. Renault was gagging to get him back. And Alonso sure as hell wasnt gonna have another rookie keeping him honest. He'd tried everything at McLaren to get preferential treatment. What terms do you reckon he went back to renault on??
Agreeing to unfair terms and then living them week in week out are two different things. Yes Brrichelo knew what he was getting into, he knew it in his head but to keep experiencing it, thats why he's so paranoid now. And I just wonder what this has done to Piquet

I really couldn't agree more; this is the main reason I dislike Alonso, he doesn't like being an equal #1 driver; as proved by his year at McLaren. We don't know the extent of what has happened behind closed doors at Renault. Maybe a lot of Piquet's mishaps have been because his is pushing the machinery too hard in a bid to keep up and ends up off the road or into the back of someone else because he has been given an inferior car to his team mate, that's tantamount to team orders in my mind, give both drivers equal equipment and see who comes out on top; that's why I like the Ron Dennis way of working, let the drivers duke it out on the track!

Well I'll see for myself if that is the case within the team very soon.

[Hexagram]

Piquet rumours persist in Hungary

The big rumour as evening fell and journalists debriefed at the Hungaroring on Friday evening was that Renault has indeed decided to drop Nelson Piquet.

The struggling Brazilian admitted 24 hours earlier in Budapest that his seat for the remainder of of the season is in doubt, following a "conflict of egos" behind closed doors at the Nurburgring two weeks ago.

It seems the conflict was between his famous father and team boss Flavio Briatore, after the latter informed the Piquet camp that Germany was the 23-year-old's last race.

According to the Hungary speculation, triple world champion Piquet Snr insisted that his son's contract specifically prohibits Renault from axing him for performance reasons when the specifications of the two cars do not match.

Piquet's R29 has now been brought up to scratch with the updated specification enjoyed by Fernando Alonso at the Nurburgring, moving the Renault camp to issue another round of notice that he will be imminently departing the team.

His replacement at Valencia and beyond will be the Swiss-French rookie Romain Grosjean, who had a big crash during GP2 qualifying at the Hungaroring on Friday afternoon.

You know everyone is quick to state Alonso's desire to be #1 driver at Renault as the source of Piquet's problems but the truth is, he is too average a driver to stop a French owned team from putting a French driver in his place. Renault simply want a French driver in their team.

[EwanM]

I'm going to ask about Roman.

[racechick]

Not suggesting they divert anything away from Alonso, he's obviously their main shot at doing well. But there's no need to go to the other extreme. Alonso was practically blown away by a rookie at McLaren(relatively speaking if you take experience into account) and look how he reacted. Renault was gagging to get him back. And Alonso sure as hell wasnt gonna have another rookie keeping him honest. He'd tried everything at McLaren to get preferential treatment. What terms do you reckon he went back to renault on??
Agreeing to unfair terms and then living them week in week out are two different things. Yes Brrichelo knew what he was getting into, he knew it in his head but to keep experiencing it, thats why he's so paranoid now. And I just wonder what this has done to Piquet

I really couldn't agree more; this is the main reason I dislike Alonso, he doesn't like being an equal #1 driver; as proved by his year at McLaren. We don't know the extent of what has happened behind closed doors at Renault. Maybe a lot of Piquet's mishaps have been because his is pushing the machinery too hard in a bid to keep up and ends up off the road or into the back of someone else because he has been given an inferior car to his team mate, that's tantamount to team orders in my mind, give both drivers equal equipment and see who comes out on top; that's why I like the Ron Dennis way of working, let the drivers duke it out on the track!

Well I'll see for myself if that is the case within the team very soon.

Ewman! You the new Renault driver!!! That was a well kept secret!

[Denthúl]

Not suggesting they divert anything away from Alonso, he's obviously their main shot at doing well. But there's no need to go to the other extreme. Alonso was practically blown away by a rookie at McLaren(relatively speaking if you take experience into account) and look how he reacted. Renault was gagging to get him back. And Alonso sure as hell wasnt gonna have another rookie keeping him honest. He'd tried everything at McLaren to get preferential treatment. What terms do you reckon he went back to renault on??
Agreeing to unfair terms and then living them week in week out are two different things. Yes Brrichelo knew what he was getting into, he knew it in his head but to keep experiencing it, thats why he's so paranoid now. And I just wonder what this has done to Piquet

I really couldn't agree more; this is the main reason I dislike Alonso, he doesn't like being an equal #1 driver; as proved by his year at McLaren. We don't know the extent of what has happened behind closed doors at Renault. Maybe a lot of Piquet's mishaps have been because his is pushing the machinery too hard in a bid to keep up and ends up off the road or into the back of someone else because he has been given an inferior car to his team mate, that's tantamount to team orders in my mind, give both drivers equal equipment and see who comes out on top; that's why I like the Ron Dennis way of working, let the drivers duke it out on the track!

Well I'll see for myself if that is the case within the team very soon.

Ewman! You the new Renault driver!!! That was a well kept secret!

He's gonna make Fernando look like a rookie.

[racechick]

Not suggesting they divert anything away from Alonso, he's obviously their main shot at doing well. But there's no need to go to the other extreme. Alonso was practically blown away by a rookie at McLaren(relatively speaking if you take experience into account) and look how he reacted. Renault was gagging to get him back. And Alonso sure as hell wasnt gonna have another rookie keeping him honest. He'd tried everything at McLaren to get preferential treatment. What terms do you reckon he went back to renault on??
Agreeing to unfair terms and then living them week in week out are two different things. Yes Brrichelo knew what he was getting into, he knew it in his head but to keep experiencing it, thats why he's so paranoid now. And I just wonder what this has done to Piquet

I really couldn't agree more; this is the main reason I dislike Alonso, he doesn't like being an equal #1 driver; as proved by his year at McLaren. We don't know the extent of what has happened behind closed doors at Renault. Maybe a lot of Piquet's mishaps have been because his is pushing the machinery too hard in a bid to keep up and ends up off the road or into the back of someone else because he has been given an inferior car to his team mate, that's tantamount to team orders in my mind, give both drivers equal equipment and see who comes out on top; that's why I like the Ron Dennis way of working, let the drivers duke it out on the track!

Well I'll see for myself if that is the case within the team very soon.

Ewman! You the new Renault driver!!! That was a well kept secret!

He's gonna make Fernando look like a rookie.

Yeeha! I'll become a Renault supporter!!

[EwanM]

Hahah not quite...

[Denthúl]

Hahah not quite...

Do tell.

[EwanM]

Hahah not quite...

Do tell.

All in good time my friend. Once I can believe it myself...