FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[What's Burning?]

I think the real problem is the departure of Paddy Lowe, he had a major role in the design of the 2013 McLaren, and he is not around to help fix the problems with his design, which was basically acknowledged by Martin Whitmarsh, it seems the new technical director, whoever he might be is struggling with Lowe's design!

I think Lowe wasn't doing a particularly good job fixing it anyway, so we'll have to wait and see what the new designer can bring to the table, a fresh mind might create something revolutionary. But yes perhaps this new chap follows a different design strategy to Lowe, so he might struggle to fix it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Paddy Lowe leave McLaren before the season started ? So hasn't done any work to fix the problems ?

You would be correct... he wasn't even at the car's unveiling at the beginning of the year.

[NHcheese]

To me, that is very suspicious behaviour.

[Ichabod]

To me, that is very suspicious behaviour.

If one of my employees told me he was going to work for a rival next year when his contract was up, I wouldn't want him working on any of my current projects either
he didn't put himself on gardening leave.

[CookinFlat6]

I think the real problem is the departure of Paddy Lowe, he had a major role in the design of the 2013 McLaren, and he is not around to help fix the problems with his design, which was basically acknowledged by Martin Whitmarsh, it seems the new technical director, whoever he might be is struggling with Lowe's design!

I am generally following the cut and thrust of this statement. However Paddy did not design the car, he is more the project manager, the chief of the team. So he is responsible for the production and end result but the actual design is done by others.

So it could be that his leadership and holistic view of what the car should be is sorely missing. McLaren probably thought that once the car was finished the leader/chief whip of the process was no longer needed and thats why they put him on garden leave etc. When the car turned out to be rocking horse poo although they have a new tech director it must be a nightmare for him to try fixing someone elses project.

A bit like builder leaving the site after the building is up, then someone else has to work out why the whole thing is wobbling dangerously when 100 fat people walk across the top floor

So if Paddy knows where all the skeletons are etc, how dumb was it to let him go before confirmation that the car was a real 'evolution'

Also what happened to McLarens famous matrix system and depth in talent and 'no star engineer' culture? Or did they let Newey go because they wanted a flat management structure yet let Paddy adopt the same thing anyway?

[1Lemon]

Gary Anderson made an interesting point in his bbc column. Paraphrasing it goes something like red bull have newey and let him just get on and design; just one inspired leader but Mclaren seems to follow a design by committee and therein lies their problem.

[CookinFlat6]

That makes sense - they have the worst of both worlds - design and decision making by committee, yet suffer when 1 person leaves the team anyway

Maybe when Ron was there it was ok to have a flat structure directly beneath one obsessive autocratic but visionary leader

But now they have a flat design and decision structure without common sense or clear unified and focused vision and they still manage to suffer when 1 guy leaves despite their strength in depth and ability to out develop the rest

2014 will be interesting, Williams with the Merc power unit and McLaren waiting for a new entrant. Could reverse the situation where Williams had Cosworth and Mac had Merc. I can see a Williams
resurgence similar to FI and Mclaren going the other way for the next few years

[1Lemon]

That makes sense - they have the worst of both worlds - design and decision making by committee, yet suffer when 1 person leaves the team anyway

Maybe when Ron was there it was ok to have a flat structure directly beneath one obsessive autocratic but visionary leader

But now they have a flat design and decision structure without common sense or clear unified and focused vision and they still manage to suffer when 1 guy leaves despite their strength in depth and ability to out develop the rest

2014 will be interesting, Williams with the Merc power unit and McLaren waiting for a new entrant. Could reverse the situation where Williams had Cosworth and Mac had Merc. I can see a Williams
resurgence similar to FI and Mclaren going the other way for the next few years

What I wan't to see is the grid close right up again, so the cars are all within a second of eachother, like the early part of last year, and we'll start to see some much more exciting and scrappy racing.

I hope you're right about Williams and not about McLaren though.

[Hammer278]

Gary Anderson made an interesting point in his bbc column. Paraphrasing it goes something like red bull have newey and let him just get on and design; just one inspired leader but Mclaren seems to follow a design by committee and therein lies their problem.

Gary Anderson....the guy who predicted McLaren to have the BEST car during winter testing and said the Mercedes is looking average as best since 'technically, they seem out of ideas unlike McLaren'. I rather read Hansel and Gretel all over again than another one of his articles.

[Jabberwocky]

Gary Anderson made an interesting point in his bbc column. Paraphrasing it goes something like red bull have newey and let him just get on and design; just one inspired leader but Mclaren seems to follow a design by committee and therein lies their problem.

Jackie Stewart said something similar when Ford/Jaguar took over his team. They had meetings about what meeting to have

[1Lemon]

Gary Anderson made an interesting point in his bbc column. Paraphrasing it goes something like red bull have newey and let him just get on and design; just one inspired leader but Mclaren seems to follow a design by committee and therein lies their problem.

Jackie Stewart said something similar when Ford/Jaguar took over his team. They had meetings about what meeting to have

Yeah I remember reading that, having meetings to plan when to have meetings; I don't think McLaren are that bad but they seem it in their design studios.

[What's Burning?]

ESPNF1, Checo news conference. "I believe that the main problem and what has caused these results is the car performance. In terms of vehicle aerodynamics we have way less than expected, we have a problem with the wind tunnel. The wind tunnel is telling us one thing but the reality on the track is much different, so it's very hard to work like that. In this scenario you have to test many things on the track in order to have a good correlation with the wind tunnel."

[1Lemon]

ESPNF1, Checo news conference. "I believe that the main problem and what has caused these results is the car performance. In terms of vehicle aerodynamics we have way less than expected, we have a problem with the wind tunnel. The wind tunnel is telling us one thing but the reality on the track is much different, so it's very hard to work like that. In this scenario you have to test many things on the track in order to have a good correlation with the wind tunnel."

In other terms "Quick, pretend like we have the same problem Ferrari had last year!" (Well only slightly BS)

[LRW]

ESPNF1, Checo news conference. "I believe that the main problem and what has caused these results is the car performance. In terms of vehicle aerodynamics we have way less than expected, we have a problem with the wind tunnel. The wind tunnel is telling us one thing but the reality on the track is much different, so it's very hard to work like that. In this scenario you have to test many things on the track in order to have a good correlation with the wind tunnel."

Isn't that what Ferrari blamed their issues on at the beginning of last year when they changed the front suspension.... the wind tunnel?

edit: Lemon beat me to it.

[1Lemon]

ESPNF1, Checo news conference. "I believe that the main problem and what has caused these results is the car performance. In terms of vehicle aerodynamics we have way less than expected, we have a problem with the wind tunnel. The wind tunnel is telling us one thing but the reality on the track is much different, so it's very hard to work like that. In this scenario you have to test many things on the track in order to have a good correlation with the wind tunnel."

Isn't that what Ferrari blamed their issues on at the beginning of last year when they changed the front suspension.... the wind tunnel?

edit: Lemon beat me to it.

[What's Burning?]

Last year everything I read generally credited Mclaren with having the world class wind tunnel.