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[EwanM]

Seriously... I think Mclaren fans are just as bad as Ferrari fans.

We exist to win, did make me laugh, and that is coming from a Mclaren fan!

Aye, obviously you haven't heard or read what Ron Dennis' famous remarks about McLaren in the mid 1990s then.

Hey nothing wrong feeling strongly about your team, but Mclaren/Ferrari fans can't come out and claim that they hold the moral high ground over each other when they are just as quick to criticise - and feel they can get away with it.

Ferrari fans criticised their drivers in the 1980s unfairly. The cars were rubbish for the most part, so nobody could win anything in them. Kovalainen's situation is completely different. Does Kovalainen have a world championship-winning car? Yes. Has Kovalainen ever looked like winning a world championship in the MP4-23? No. I've been patient with Kovalainen, but now I'm justifiable fed up with him. Bye bye constructors' championship once again. [/quote]

No no im not talking bout criticising ur drivers, im talking about criticing each other. Ferrari V Mclaren.

[racechick]

Hamilton is a twat. You could see at the end of the race, the number of drivers who queued up to congradulate Sebastian. When has Hamilton ever had that?
After the race he was interviewed and wasn't even 100% sure that Vettel had won... that's quite disrespectful.

HAMILTON IS A f***ing TWAT FACE! HE DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHO WON THE f***ing BLEEDING RACE! SO MUCH RESPECT AY !!!

For Christs' sake what is it with you guys and lewis! . You dont know when louise interviewed him! It was probably shortly after he got out the car cos he still had his drink bottle, he wasnt in the winners enclosure and would have to be weighed so he checked who'd won. Whats the big deal! Has everyone forgotten when he ws so delighted for Nico's podium??? You all have very short and selective memories.

[Hanwombat]

Hamilton is a twat. You could see at the end of the race, the number of drivers who queued up to congradulate Sebastian. When has Hamilton ever had that?
After the race he was interviewed and wasn't even 100% sure that Vettel had won... that's quite disrespectful.

HAMILTON IS A f***ing TWAT FACE! HE DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHO WON THE f***ing BLEEDING RACE! SO MUCH RESPECT AY !!!

For Christs' sake what is it with you guys and lewis! . You dont know when louise interviewed him! It was probably shortly after he got out the car cos he still had his drink bottle, he wasnt in the winners enclosure and would have to be weighed so he checked who'd won. Whats the big deal! Has everyone forgotten when he ws so delighted for Nico's podium??? You all have very short and selective memories.

Okay I regret my statement, I am just very pissy from certain remarks

[McLaren Fan]

Hamilton can be a knob at times and does ask for criticism, but a lot of the flak he takes is down to other people's jealousy, be they fans or other drivers.

[onelapdown]

Seriously... I think Mclaren fans are just as bad as Ferrari fans.

We exist to win, did make me laugh, and that is coming from a Mclaren fan!

Aye, obviously you haven't heard or read what Ron Dennis' famous remarks about McLaren in the mid 1990s then.

Hey nothing wrong feeling strongly about your team, but Mclaren/Ferrari fans can't come out and claim that they hold the moral high ground over each other when they are just as quick to criticise - and feel they can get away with it.

Ferrari fans criticised their drivers in the 1980s unfairly. The cars were rubbish for the most part, so nobody could win anything in them. Kovalainen's situation is completely different. Does Kovalainen have a world championship-winning car? Yes. Has Kovalainen ever looked like winning a world championship in the MP4-23? No. I've been patient with Kovalainen, but now I'm justifiable fed up with him. Bye bye constructors' championship once again.

No no im not talking bout criticising ur drivers, im talking about criticing each other. Ferrari V Mclaren.

I think half your problem is that, with some justification, the definition of a Ferrari/McLaren fan has shifted from:

Someone who wants Ferrari/McLaren to do well

to

Someone who wants McLaren/Ferrari to do badly

or even

someone who wants McLaren/Ferrari fans to be humiliated

I find the whole thing tiresome and people on either side of the fence don't exactly cover themselves in glory at times.

[Hanwombat]

Seriously... I think Mclaren fans are just as bad as Ferrari fans.

We exist to win, did make me laugh, and that is coming from a Mclaren fan!

Aye, obviously you haven't heard or read what Ron Dennis' famous remarks about McLaren in the mid 1990s then.

I would of only been about 5 and didn't care for F1 then so no can't say I have heard or read about it, I have far more important things to read, not saying I wouldn't read a passage but Its all about the Air force currently

[Denthúl]

Seriously... I think Mclaren fans are just as bad as Ferrari fans.

We exist to win, did make me laugh, and that is coming from a Mclaren fan!

Aye, obviously you haven't heard or read what Ron Dennis' famous remarks about McLaren in the mid 1990s then.

Hey nothing wrong feeling strongly about your team, but Mclaren/Ferrari fans can't come out and claim that they hold the moral high ground over each other when they are just as quick to criticise - and feel they can get away with it.

Ferrari fans criticised their drivers in the 1980s unfairly. The cars were rubbish for the most part, so nobody could win anything in them. Kovalainen's situation is completely different. Does Kovalainen have a world championship-winning car? Yes. Has Kovalainen ever looked like winning a world championship in the MP4-23? No. I've been patient with Kovalainen, but now I'm justifiable fed up with him. Bye bye constructors' championship once again. [/quote]

No, no - I think you're being unfairly harsh on the guy as well, to be honest. It's not exactly realistic to expect someone to be doing spectacularly well in only their second season in Formula 1, regardless of what they are driving. Coulthard, Hakkinen and Raikkonen didn't win races in their first years in a car capable of taking victories. Two of those moved on to be world champions. If you take Kovalainen's bad luck out of the equation, his season hasn't been as dire as you're making out. If you're going to place huge expectations on every driver that comes to your team, then of course they're going to 'underperform'.

[al4x]

Hamilton can be a knob at times and does ask for criticism, but a lot of the flak he takes is down to other people's jealousy, be they fans or other drivers.

see, more like alonso than people care to admit!

[Hanwombat]

Seriously... I think Mclaren fans are just as bad as Ferrari fans.

We exist to win, did make me laugh, and that is coming from a Mclaren fan!

Aye, obviously you haven't heard or read what Ron Dennis' famous remarks about McLaren in the mid 1990s then.

Hey nothing wrong feeling strongly about your team, but Mclaren/Ferrari fans can't come out and claim that they hold the moral high ground over each other when they are just as quick to criticise - and feel they can get away with it.

Ferrari fans criticised their drivers in the 1980s unfairly. The cars were rubbish for the most part, so nobody could win anything in them. Kovalainen's situation is completely different. Does Kovalainen have a world championship-winning car? Yes. Has Kovalainen ever looked like winning a world championship in the MP4-23? No. I've been patient with Kovalainen, but now I'm justifiable fed up with him. Bye bye constructors' championship once again.

No, no - I think you're being unfairly harsh on the guy as well, to be honest. It's not exactly realistic to expect someone to be doing spectacularly well in only their second season in Formula 1, regardless of what they are driving. Coulthard, Hakkinen and Raikkonen didn't win races in their first years in a car capable of taking victories. Two of those moved on to be world champions. If you take Kovalainen's bad luck out of the equation, his season hasn't been as dire as you're making out. If you're going to place huge expectations on every driver that comes to your team, then of course they're going to 'underperform'.[/quote]

Good read, so true

[EwanM]

Hamilton can be a knob at times and does ask for criticism, but a lot of the flak he takes is down to other people's jealousy, be they fans or other drivers.

Well I'm really not jealous of him. I mean I really don't wanna walk about sounding like a complete arse, driving with the hood down like im P Diddy or someone like that.
I'm happy with my life.

[racechick]

Hamilton can be a knob at times and does ask for criticism, but a lot of the flak he takes is down to other people's jealousy, be they fans or other drivers.

Id agree with that .

[McLaren Fan]

I was not expecting Kovalainen to be a world beater this season. As I said before, I was expecting him to take a while to settle and towards the end of the season perhaps we'd see something from him. Hardly 'huge expectations', then. The race was there to be won by Kovalainen today. He'll not get a better chance to win a Grand Prix for a long time to come. It's a bit like a footballer being incapable of scoring when the net is empty. Kovalainen didn't even look like winning the race today. His "attempt" was risible.

[onelapdown]

My problem with Kovalainen, above all, is that he has yet to put himself in the position where he is able to win a race on merit (unless I've forgotten something). I haven't given up on him yet though and I still think personality-wise he's a great guy.

[Denthúl]

I was not expecting Kovalainen to be a world beater this season. As I said before, I was expecting him to take a while to settle and towards the end of the season perhaps we'd see something from him. Hardly 'huge expectations', then. The race was there to be won by Kovalainen today. He'll not get a better chance to win a Grand Prix for a long time to come. It's a bit like a footballer being incapable of scoring when the net is empty. Kovalainen didn't even look like winning the race today. His "attempt" was risible.

Look at the races where he had such bad luck - his race pace was fine during those. Had he not had that tyre failure in Spain, been hit by Kimi in Turkey or suffered an electrical issue which led to him stalling on the grid in Monaco, you'd probably find McLaren much, much closer to Ferrari in the WCC and you probably wouldn't be complaining so much.

Give him another year before making your judgement. Let him have the consistency of being within the same team for more than a season of racing, let him be there right from the start of the new car's development and let him get some experience.

[racechick]

I was not expecting Kovalainen to be a world beater this season. As I said before, I was expecting him to take a while to settle and towards the end of the season perhaps we'd see something from him. Hardly 'huge expectations', then. The race was there to be won by Kovalainen today. He'll not get a better chance to win a Grand Prix for a long time to come. It's a bit like a footballer being incapable of scoring when the net is empty. Kovalainen didn't even look like winning the race today. His "attempt" was risible.

I didnt expect him to be on Lewis pace but he has disappointed. I thought he'd be closer. Folk have said he's always fuelled heavier than lewis, he wasnt today. He's had bad luck but when the dice fall well for him he doesnt seem able to take advantage as he should. In his defence ive heard he arrived from renault unfit and psychologically scarred, thats being worked on so maybe next year the results will come. I hope so he is such a lovely guy.
To get back to topic Vettel drove superbly. To quote what many said about Lewis(And which actually I disaggreed with!!) Its easy to win from the front, you have to prove yourself by coming through from the back) Im sure given the chance Vettel will do that also.

I see vettel lewis and Kubica as the future.