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[myownalias]

I firmly believe that it's Ferrari's wishes using the FOTA name, has any other team principle spoken out about creating a rival series? Until at least seven of the 12 teams stand up and say they want a rival series, I have no reason to believe it's anything more than Ferrari propaganda, remember we saw all this 18 months ago!

I've seen exciting sand crab races, too, but I don't support F1 switching to crab power. Ferrari and F1 grew up together. In many respects, their histories and their fates are intertwined. This gives Ferrari to feel they are the true and proper shepherd of the sport, the "keeper of the faith," as it were.

I happen to agree.

The sum of the parts are not bigger than the whole, Ferrari are not F1, they are merely a cog in the wheel. The governing body make the rules and the teams make a decision whether they want to compete under the rules or not. For changes to happen, all competing teams need to agree and I think that's a fair a diplomatic way, why should Ferrari be the shepherd, their longevity in the sport doesn't mean they have a divine right to dictate, McLaren and Mercedes put as much money into the sport as Ferrari.

[Robert12010]

I firmly believe that it's Ferrari's wishes using the FOTA name, has any other team principle spoken out about creating a rival series? Until at least seven of the 12 teams stand up and say they want a rival series, I have no reason to believe it's anything more than Ferrari propaganda, remember we saw all this 18 months ago!

I've seen exciting sand crab races, too, but I don't support F1 switching to crab power. Ferrari and F1 grew up together. In many respects, their histories and their fates are intertwined. This gives Ferrari to feel they are the true and proper shepherd of the sport, the "keeper of the faith," as it were.

I happen to agree.

The sum of the parts are not bigger than the whole, Ferrari are not F1, they are merely a cog in the wheel. The governing body make the rules and the teams make a decision whether they want to compete under the rules or not. For changes to happen, all competing teams need to agree and I think that's a fair a diplomatic way, why should Ferrari be the shepherd, their longevity in the sport doesn't mean they have a divine right to dictate, McLaren and Mercedes put as much money into the sport as Ferrari.

although i believe that 18 months ago i think it wasnt just ferrari that were threatning to leave, quite a few were.

[myownalias]

although i believe that 18 months ago i think it wasnt just ferrari that were threatning to leave, quite a few were.

Yes, primarily it was LDM and Toyota's John Howett than led the revolt, the other teams were suspiciously quiet on the breakaway threat, I don't believe Howett and LDM had the full support of the manufacturers which was born out by both Toyota and BMW leaving F1, you can effectively add Renault to that list as well. At the end of 2009, there was effectively only one manufacturer team remaining and that name was Ferrari, Mercedes came about later and McLaren are not a manufacturer team, at least not yet!

[Robert12010]

although i believe that 18 months ago i think it wasnt just ferrari that were threatning to leave, quite a few were.

Yes, primarily it was LDM and Toyota's John Howett than led the revolt, the other teams were suspiciously quiet on the breakaway threat, I don't believe Howett and LDM had the full support of the manufacturers which was born out by both Toyota and BMW leaving F1, you can effectively add Renault to that list as well. At the end of 2009, there was effectively only one manufacturer team remaining and that name was Ferrari, Mercedes came about later and McLaren are not a manufacturer team, at least not yet!

well they do make a road car does that count? yes your right renault wanted to go to, but then they are just weird can decide if they are in or out!

[F1er]

Yea right

Breaking News!

In order to please Green Peace or whatever Formula1 is going Electric! With this latest move they will save money on petrol (but waste millions changing the technology)
January 4 2014

One year after Audi powered car wins both titles!

When I wrote this I was being sarcastic!^^^

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010122 ... /101229996

after reading that I AM

[spankyham]

although i believe that 18 months ago i think it wasnt just ferrari that were threatning to leave, quite a few were.

Yes, primarily it was LDM and Toyota's John Howett than led the revolt, the other teams were suspiciously quiet on the breakaway threat, I don't believe Howett and LDM had the full support of the manufacturers which was born out by both Toyota and BMW leaving F1, you can effectively add Renault to that list as well. At the end of 2009, there was effectively only one manufacturer team remaining and that name was Ferrari, Mercedes came about later and McLaren are not a manufacturer team, at least not yet!

It may be nice for the Tifosi to be lulled into Myown's line of thinking - that Ferrari is all powerful in decision-making in F1, but it is really more fanciful than true.

Lets be clear, 100% of the then FOTA teams, signed up and issued the statement announcing the breakaway series. The ultimatum was given to the FiA and Max, 100% back-down and Max to go - otherwise FOTA was leaving. As well all know, the FiA and Max totally capitulated.

It would be pure speculation to say that some of the teams left F1 because the FOTA series didn't proceed.

[spankyham]

I firmly believe that it's Ferrari's wishes using the FOTA name, has any other team principle spoken out about creating a rival series? Until at least seven of the 12 teams stand up and say they want a rival series, I have no reason to believe it's anything more than Ferrari propaganda, remember we saw all this 18 months ago!

How many of the teams have distanced themselves from LDM's statements? It is extremely naive to think there would be any team that doesn't support LDM's push to put a greater share of the pie in their hands.

I've seen exciting sand crab races, too, but I don't support F1 switching to crab power. Ferrari and F1 grew up together. In many respects, their histories and their fates are intertwined. This gives Ferrari to feel they are the true and proper shepherd of the sport, the "keeper of the faith," as it were.

I happen to agree.

The sum of the parts are not bigger than the whole, Ferrari are not F1, they are merely a cog in the wheel. The governing body make the rules and the teams make a decision whether they want to compete under the rules or not. For changes to happen, all competing teams need to agree and I think that's a fair a diplomatic way, why should Ferrari be the shepherd, their longevity in the sport doesn't mean they have a divine right to dictate, McLaren and Mercedes put as much money into the sport as Ferrari.

To try and sweep aside Ferrari's F1 history and achievements by calling Ferrari "just another cog" is pretty demeaning and is almost word-perfect the mantra espoused by Il-Sung, Jong-il or Mao.
It should also be remembered that Ferrari is a member of FOTA and goes along with their decisions, they accept the rule of democracy. I mean, they accepted the stupid new engine although it is clear they were against it.

[smokin]

Yea right

Breaking News!

In order to please Green Peace or whatever Formula1 is going Electric! With this latest move they will save money on petrol (but waste millions changing the technology)
January 4 2014

One year after Audi powered car wins both titles!

When I wrote this I was being sarcastic!^^^

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010122 ... /101229996

after reading that I AM

It would make refuelling strategies interesting...

[darwin dali]

Yea right

Breaking News!

In order to please Green Peace or whatever Formula1 is going Electric! With this latest move they will save money on petrol (but waste millions changing the technology)
January 4 2014

One year after Audi powered car wins both titles!

When I wrote this I was being sarcastic!^^^

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010122 ... /101229996

after reading that I AM

It would make refuelling strategies interesting...

Lots of ice cream bars for KR during those 60-90 minutes

[myownalias]

I firmly believe that it's Ferrari's wishes using the FOTA name, has any other team principle spoken out about creating a rival series? Until at least seven of the 12 teams stand up and say they want a rival series, I have no reason to believe it's anything more than Ferrari propaganda, remember we saw all this 18 months ago!

How many of the teams have distanced themselves from LDM's statements? It is extremely naive to think there would be any team that doesn't support LDM's push to put a greater share of the pie in their hands.

The bigger share of the monies part of LDM's comments I agree with, re-read the quoted text, I asked if any other team principle has spoken out about creating a rival series?

I've seen exciting sand crab races, too, but I don't support F1 switching to crab power. Ferrari and F1 grew up together. In many respects, their histories and their fates are intertwined. This gives Ferrari to feel they are the true and proper shepherd of the sport, the "keeper of the faith," as it were.

I happen to agree.

The sum of the parts are not bigger than the whole, Ferrari are not F1, they are merely a cog in the wheel. The governing body make the rules and the teams make a decision whether they want to compete under the rules or not. For changes to happen, all competing teams need to agree and I think that's a fair a diplomatic way, why should Ferrari be the shepherd, their longevity in the sport doesn't mean they have a divine right to dictate, McLaren and Mercedes put as much money into the sport as Ferrari.

To try and sweep aside Ferrari's F1 history and achievements by calling Ferrari "just another cog" is pretty demeaning and is almost word-perfect the mantra espoused by Il-Sung, Jong-il or Mao.
It should also be remembered that Ferrari is a member of FOTA and goes along with their decisions, they accept the rule of democracy. I mean, they accepted the stupid new engine although it is clear they were against it.

I'm not trying to sweep aside Ferrari's history and achievements but because they have the longest history in F1 shouldn't mean that LDM should wave that history in everyone's face by threatening to quit the sport and form a breakaway, when 2013 comes along, I really hope that Bernie calls his bluff, leaving two options for LDM; either walk away or crawl back with his tail between his legs! I know you don't agree with my sentiments; but Ferrari are just a cog in the machine that is F1, there are plenty of teams that have been involved with F1 for a long time, McLaren have been involved for 44 years and Williams 33 years, so plenty of history there. By that reckoning, every Ford driver should get priority on the public roads as Ford created the first mass produced automobile so therefore have been using the public road system longer than anyone else.

[spankyham]

The bigger share of the monies part of LDM's comments I agree with, re-read the quoted text, I asked if any other team principle has spoken out about creating a rival series?

I think you missed my point, how many teams have distanced themselves from his comments including the option of a breakaway?

To try and sweep aside Ferrari's F1 history and achievements by calling Ferrari "just another cog" is pretty demeaning and is almost word-perfect the mantra espoused by Il-Sung, Jong-il or Mao.
It should also be remembered that Ferrari is a member of FOTA and goes along with their decisions, they accept the rule of democracy. I mean, they accepted the stupid new engine although it is clear they were against it.

I'm not trying to sweep aside Ferrari's history and achievements but because they have the longest history in F1 shouldn't mean that LDM should wave that history in everyone's face by threatening to quit the sport and form a breakaway, when 2013 comes along, I really hope that Bernie calls his bluff, leaving two options for LDM; either walk away or crawl back with his tail between his legs! I know you don't agree with my sentiments; but Ferrari are just a cog in the machine that is F1, there are plenty of teams that have been involved with F1 for a long time, McLaren have been involved for 44 years and Williams 33 years, so plenty of history there. By that reckoning, every Ford driver should get priority on the public roads as Ford created the first mass produced automobile so therefore have been using the public road system longer than anyone else.

So you're saying LDM has no right to give a Ferrari opinion on anything? And if he does, then whatever he says is Ferrari "waving their history in everyone's face"? Get real, he and Ferrari are entitled to have an opinion, and they are entitled to express it.

[myownalias]

The bigger share of the monies part of LDM's comments I agree with, re-read the quoted text, I asked if any other team principle has spoken out about creating a rival series?

I think you missed my point, how many teams have distanced themselves from his comments including the option of a breakaway?

No-one has come out in support of the breakaway either, if it was a serious FOTA effort, the top teams would be shouting as loud as Ferrari about the breakaway, with just Ferrari making all the noise it rather weakens their stance. Two breakaway threats led by LDM in 18 months, basically that's LDM gambling that the powers that be consider Ferrari such a big part of F1 that Bernie and the FIA wouldn't have a championship worth speaking off after the red cars left for pastures new!

So you're saying LDM has no right to give a Ferrari opinion on anything? And if he does, then whatever he says is Ferrari "waving their history in everyone's face"? Get real, he and Ferrari are entitled to have an opinion, and they are entitled to express it.

No, I am not saying he doesn't have a right to have an opinion although I wish he would spend more time doing his job as the head of FIAT rather than flapping his lips about Ferrari F1 team matters. What pisses me off is he always has to be so dramatic about everything, yes speak out about getting a bigger share of the monies... but was it really necessary to bring up the breakaway series again, you can't tell me he isn't using Ferrari's history and popularity to get his own way!

Don't get me wrong, this isn't Ferrari specific, if Ron Dennis or Ross Brawn suddenly started shouting about a breakaway series, I'd have the same attitude, "put up or shut up!"

[spankyham]

IMO it's significant that the other teams haven't come out and said anything to diminish LDM's comments.

We should be clear that what LDM is posturing for is a greater share of the pie for "FOTA". He has described an NBA style governance, which puts most control in the hands of the member teams - not the oldest member team You need to give him credit for that.

Sure, the raising of the breakaway has been played many times - and I can understand you saying "put up or shut-up" but, it is played many times for one simple reason - it works.

[F1er]

You shouldn't feel bad for Williams and company,coz as far as I remember Sir Frank and Peter were the first ones to cave in! SF and Macca were dead serious,they didnt get the backing from all the teams.

[myownalias]

Sure, the raising of the breakaway has been played many times - and I can understand you saying "put up or shut-up" but, it is played many times for one simple reason - it works.

But there is always the boy that cried wolf idea, use the threat too many times and no-one will take LDM and Ferrari seriously! Let's be serious here; Ferrari need F1 as much as F1 needs Ferrari, a split will be detrimental to both sides, it's a lose/lose situation in my opinion!

You shouldn't feel bad for Williams and company,coz as far as I remember Sir Frank and Peter were the first ones to cave in! SF and Macca were dead serious,they didnt get the backing from all the teams.

I don't feel sorry for Sir Frank, he's a very intelligent man, he'll do what is best for Williams; because he decided to side with FOTA last time doesn't mean he'll do it again! I assume by Peter, you mean Peter Sauber, if that is the case, Peter Sauber wasn't running his privateer team in 2009, it was the BMW manufacturer team at the time!