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[The Oz]

Doesn't Massa have a contract with them though?

I'd like to see Webber to Ferrari, Buemi to Red Bull so they can build the team around Vettel, Massa to Renault, and Petrov to Virign or HRT, and Ricciardo to STR

[Big Azza]

Yes but he can be fired for not performing. Just like Webber could be fired for speaking disrespectfully about the team. Just like I could be fired for typing on this forum when I'm meant to be working.

[vaptin]

Kobayashi to Ferrari, Massa to Renault, Bianchi replaces Kobayashi, Heidfeld partners Bianchi.

[f1ea]

If Massa ldoes leave, the only possibilities I see within reason are... Kubica, Webber or Heidfeld.
Ferrari could go for someone young... but i doubt it. Kimi would be better!

Alonso + Kimi or Kubica.... That's the business.
Or maybe even Webber, not bad. But i dont see a reason for Webber to leave RBR.

[Four mules as one]

I don't see Ferrari welcoming back Kimi Raikkonen in a hurry, especially after the ice cream and coke incident which is a far cry from the serious attempt they are now having with Alonso. I think Dominicello is loving having the Spaniard as Todt and Brawn loved having the Schu because they are fully commited.

One driver who should be getting a bit of a mention is Timo Glock because I think he can showed good speed in his last year with Toyota. Also, what about Kovailenen. I know he had a similar year to Massa when he partnered Lewis but I think he has a real rebuilding year with Lotus and can't wait to see him in a more competitive Lotus Renault (or whatever its going to be called).

I don't think Alonso would want Kobayashi as a team mate because he would never know what his team mate is going to do. Although, as a fan, I would love to see Kobayashi in a front running car, excitement plus. Kobayashi (Ferrari) and Sutil (McLaren), change the series name to Formula One Bumper Cars.

[myownalias]

Massa will be at Ferrari next season because he'll do as he is told; drivers like Webber, Kobayashi and Kubica wouldn't play second fiddle in the middle of the season like Massa did, the three drivers mentioned before are racers; they know nothing different than giving in 100% and taking risks to win races/championships!

[vaptin]

Massa will be at Ferrari next season because he'll do as he is told; drivers like Webber, Kobayashi and Kubica wouldn't play second fiddle in the middle of the season like Massa did, the three drivers mentioned before are racers; they know nothing different than giving in 100% and taking risks to win races/championships!

Probably cos their better drivers than Massa, they will be able to keep apace for longer. Massa put himself in that position, through being, on merit, so far back, and Alonso was in that position as well, though being almost out of the drivers championship.

Shumacher let Rosberg through in Brazil, Shumacher's a racer and has benefited from team orders plenty of times, but even he knows when your not matching your team mate over the season, not much point holding him up the time you find yourself ahead of him.

[kaizensuru]

Massa will be at Ferrari next season because he'll do as he is told; drivers like Webber, Kobayashi and Kubica wouldn't play second fiddle in the middle of the season like Massa did, the three drivers mentioned before are racers; they know nothing different than giving in 100% and taking risks to win races/championships!

Probably cos their better drivers than Massa, they will be able to keep apace for longer. Massa put himself in that position, through being, on merit, so far back, and Alonso was in that position as well, though being almost out of the drivers championship.

Shumacher let Rosberg through in Brazil, Shumacher's a racer and has benefited from team orders plenty of times, but even he knows when your not matching your team mate over the season, not much point holding him up the time you find yourself ahead of him.

Pretty well thought, I like how you put it.

I don't have anything against Massa, but his performance has been poor all season with a few exceptions, not just since Germany as some seem to imply, he even admitted he does not feel like his old self (sorry can't find link).

Maybe the accident affected him more than we can perceive.

[Mr.Conte]

Massa has lost a good portion of his former fire.
It happens; a family man now, all the money he needs...
The accident played a part for sure.
My feeling is that Massa will either step down and retire, or move into a test position possibly.
Somehow, he needs to re-kindle that former self that battled Hamilton a few years back.
Maybe we will see and Alonso / Kubica thing with Massa as tester / back up.. who know?

[myownalias]

We don't know the true situation at Maranello; Massa could have been told at the beginning of the season that he would have to defer to Alonso; the Spaniard being the clear #1 despite the numbers on their cars indicating otherwise. All this is speculation of course but being a clear #2 driver doesn't inspire him to drive his heart out and being demoted from first place in Germany wouldn't have helped his morale. In an everyday analogy; it's like having a colleague who has the same experience as you, who does the exact same job as you and gets paid $15 p/h when you only get $10 p/h, hardly equal opportunities is it? But despite this; I expect him to be say in a Ferrari next season!

[spankyham]

We don't know the true situation at Maranello

Something else we agree on

it's like having a colleague who has the same experience as you

Except one guy has won 2 WDC's (but lets not cloud the issue with facts)

[myownalias]

We don't know the true situation at Maranello

Something else we agree on

If we keep agreeing like this; we'll be best friends soon

it's like having a colleague who has the same experience as you

Except one guy has won 2 WDC's (but lets not cloud the issue with facts)

Both drivers have similar experience, being a double world champion doesn't change that, it's easy to become world champion when you don't have a competitive team mate and clear #1 status, Massa has never had that and when he had the support of his team, he lost the WDC by one point, some say unfairly given McLaren team orders!

[spankyham]

We don't know the true situation at Maranello

Something else we agree on

If we keep agreeing like this; we'll be best friends soon

it's like having a colleague who has the same experience as you

Except one guy has won 2 WDC's (but lets not cloud the issue with facts)

Both drivers have similar experience, being a double world champion doesn't change that, it's easy to become world champion when you don't have a competitive team mate and clear #1 status, Massa has never had that and when he had the support of his team, he lost the WDC by one point, some say unfairly given McLaren team orders!

No-one is a bigger Massa fan than me, but, even I know that a double WDC is worth $5 an hour more

[myownalias]

OK, maybe it was a bad analogy in hindsight, but Massa should be given equal standing, pulling the team order eleven races into the season was harsh on Massa, we will never know what psychological damage that has done to Massa, if he was allowed to win, maybe he would have went on to win other races. Another analogy; if you constantly get passed over for promotion, you tend not to try so hard to do the best job possible or look for alternative employment!

[vaptin]

OK, maybe it was a bad analogy in hindsight, but Massa should be given equal standing, pulling the team order eleven races into the season was harsh on Massa, we will never know what psychological damage that has done to Massa, if he was allowed to win, maybe he would have went on to win other races. Another analogy; if you constantly get passed over for promotion, you tend not to try so hard to do the best job possible or look for alternative employment!

Yeah, but your assuming Massa started on a unequal footing, Australia this year suggests not.

If when it comes to the Christmas bonus, your colleague gets it in october, you go to the boss and ask, what's going on here? He says look, he was so much better than you, we thought we might as well give it to him now. How do you react? You either think, this guys out of my league, I'll never get a Christmas bonus again, or you decide that it's a good company to work for, and next year you'll preform much better so you'll get the Christmas bonus, or at least its shared equally between you.