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#200173
Isn't the same thing as the castrol/autosport ratings?

I would of thought that the best way to rate drivers would be to compare them against team mates. then rate them against threre team mate for the following year and rate them accordingly.
#200188
Isn't the same thing as the castrol/autosport ratings?

I would of thought that the best way to rate drivers would be to compare them against team mates. then rate them against threre team mate for the following year and rate them accordingly.

sounds workable maybe.
But like it is always said, there is never a fair comparision
#200216
Isn't the same thing as the castrol/autosport ratings?

I would of thought that the best way to rate drivers would be to compare them against team mates. then rate them against threre team mate for the following year and rate them accordingly.



But like all of us, they improve....or get worse each year so comparing year to year isn't even possible, especially with different cars each year. I know that I get smarter, faster, braver and better looking with each passing year....though it seems impossible. :D
#200217
Its' who's best of their generation anyhting else is guesswork.A great effort but Damon Hill and Nigel Mansell that high up,the system has to be flawed :hehe:


look at nigels career without some bad luck he could of easily been a multiple WDC.
#200221
Its' who's best of their generation anyhting else is guesswork.A great effort but Damon Hill and Nigel Mansell that high up,the system has to be flawed :hehe:


look at nigels career without some bad luck he could of easily been a multiple WDC.


I know what you mean Gaz but Mansell 6th Hill 8th of all time is a bit too far. :hehe:
#200226
Its' who's best of their generation anyhting else is guesswork.A great effort but Damon Hill and Nigel Mansell that high up,the system has to be flawed :hehe:


look at nigels career without some bad luck he could of easily been a multiple WDC.


I know what you mean Gaz but Mansell 6th Hill 8th of all time is a bit too far. :hehe:


Yeah pointless comparing, the only comparison is that year that race weekend. that day, the lap that corner.
#200242
Isn't the same thing as the castrol/autosport ratings?

I would of thought that the best way to rate drivers would be to compare them against team mates. then rate them against threre team mate for the following year and rate them accordingly.



But like all of us, they improve....or get worse each year so comparing year to year isn't even possible, especially with different cars each year. I know that I get smarter, faster, braver and better looking with each passing year....though it seems impossible. :D

:uselesswithoutpics:
#200266
Isn't the same thing as the castrol/autosport ratings?

I would of thought that the best way to rate drivers would be to compare them against team mates. then rate them against threre team mate for the following year and rate them accordingly.


Yes essentially thats what I was doing.

Take care

Tim
#200271
Its' who's best of their generation anyhting else is guesswork.A great effort but Damon Hill and Nigel Mansell that high up,the system has to be flawed :hehe:


look at nigels career without some bad luck he could of easily been a multiple WDC.


Yes thats what the ratings I calculated show. He's up there with the multiple champions. And some of the multiple world champions are down there with single champions etc. In fact Moss is up there with the multiple chamions despite never winning the title.

But as Zurich quite rightly says these ratings don't prove anything in absolute terms. They are just that I use a numerical system to evaluate drivers. It doesn't mean it's any more valid, better or worse, than any individuals opinion.

It's just a set of numbers.

Here's the top 20 peak ratings correct up to and including Monaco GP of 2010. The second figure is the year the peak rating was achieved.

1 Michael Schumacher 2779 2004
2 Jim Clark 2778 1965
3 Juan Manuel Fangio 2764 1957
4 Alberto Ascari 2748 1953
5 Ayrton Senna 2739 1991
6 Nigel Mansell 2734 1992
7 Mika Häkkinen 2718 2000
8 Damon Hill 2711 1996
9 Stirling Moss 2707 1959
10 Jackie Stewart 2704 1972
11 Alain Prost 2696 1993
12 Kimi Räikkönen 2686 2008
13 Niki Lauda 2684 1976
14 Mario Andretti 2676 1978
15 Nélson Piquet 2676 1987
16 Jacques Villeneuve 2674 1997
17 Fernando Alonso 2670 2007
18 Jacky Ickx 2670 1972
19 Graham Hill 2670 1965
20 Felipe Massa 2668 2008

I know it proves nothing. It's just my calculations for my amusement, but its kind of nice to see that using this methodology that 4 of the top 5 are those that dominate the debates as to 'who was the greatest of all time'.

Interesting to note that Lewis Hamiltons rating peaked at 2648 in 2008. Since then his rating has remained remarkably consistent and now stands at 2646. This of course is despite much poorer results due to being in a less competitive car for the past season and a chunk. The reason for this is of course the ratings aren't measuring his results just his performance against team mates in an attempt to remove the car from the equation.

Like I said I know it proves nothing. It's just for fun. Please don't be too critical as I'm struggling with criticism at the moment.

Tim

PS after tomorrow I'm back to the hard grind of the seven days a week work so I'll be posting a bit less.
Last edited by Wurnos on 21 May 10, 10:50, edited 2 times in total.
#200274
Its' who's best of their generation anyhting else is guesswork.A great effort but Damon Hill and Nigel Mansell that high up,the system has to be flawed :hehe:


look at nigels career without some bad luck he could of easily been a multiple WDC.


I know what you mean Gaz but Mansell 6th Hill 8th of all time is a bit too far. :hehe:


Yes I know exactly what you mean. Mansell never dominated his generation. However he is still 4th on the list of most GPs won. Even if you convert this to GP Years he scores 1.94 and ranks 7th. Damon lies 10th= on the list of GP wins with 22 but this would be reduced 14th in terms of GP years with 1.36. While I'm sure many people would disagree with the my top 10 list, I doubt anyone would match it exactly, there are just to many permutations. However, I don't think having either of these drivers in the top 10 is completey beyond the realms of possibility.

What would your top 10 be?

GP Years are a crude but interesting value added statistic. Over the years the # of races in F1 has increased. It is therefore not really fair to compare a drivers career total GP Wins from an earlier era with those from a latter. GP Years record the total # of victories in terms of a proportion of thotal GP in a year at the time the victories were being forged. Therefore if a driver wins all the races in 1 year he would record 1 GP year. This may be 9 races in the early years of F1 or 19 races in the latter years or a proportion thereof. E.g. Fangio lies 8th on the list of all time GP wins but is 3rd on GP years because these victories were achieved at a time when less GP races were part of the F1 calendar.

The full list of GP Years derived from the database I use is as follows. This list, of course, comprises all drivers who have ever won a GP. Unlike most statistics relating to this area of the sport, where a win was shared with another driver each driver receives a proportion of the win in question. E.g. Stirling Moss' win the 1957 GP was shared with Tony Brooks, therefore each driver would record half a GP victory. Stirling Moss' total GP wins would therefore be 15.5 and not 16 as recorded in most statistical almanacs. I think this is a fairer way of doing it.

1 Michael Schumacher 5.381
2 Alain Prost 3.217
3 Juan Manuel Fangio 2.903
4 Ayrton Senna 2.563
5 Jim Clark 2.491
6 Jackie Stewart 2.296
7 Nigel Mansell 1.938
8 Stirling Moss 1.741
9 Niki Lauda 1.604
10 Alberto Ascari 1.556
11 Nélson Piquet 1.489
12 Jack Brabham 1.425
13 Graham Hill 1.385
14 Damon Hill 1.360
15 Mika Häkkinen 1.224
16 Fernando Alonso 1.219
17 Emerson Fittipaldi 1.036
18 Kimi Räikkönen 1.009
19 Alan Jones 0.816
20 Carlos Reutemann 0.785
21 David Coulthard 0.779
22 Mario Andretti 0.764
23 Jacky Ickx 0.670
24 Nino Farina 0.665
25 Jacques Villeneuve 0.662
26 Denny Hulme 0.656
27 Ronnie Peterson 0.654
28 Rubens Barrichello 0.648
29 Jody Scheckter 0.644
30 Lewis Hamilton 0.631
31 James Hunt 0.623
32 Gerhard Berger 0.621
33 Felipe Massa 0.621
34 John Surtees 0.613
35 Tony Brooks 0.557
36 Jenson Button 0.514
37 Jochen Rindt 0.476
38 René Arnoux 0.468
39 Bruce McLaren 0.406
40 Dan Gurney 0.402
41 Juan Pablo Montoya 0.397
42 Jacques Laffite 0.397
43 Gilles Villeneuve 0.396
44 Riccardo Patrese 0.379
45 Ralf Schumacher 0.360
46 Phil Hill 0.350
47 Clay Regazzoni 0.344
48 Sebastian Vettel 0.343
49 Peter Collins 0.341
50 John Watson 0.321
51 Keke Rosberg 0.317
51 Michele Alboreto 0.317
53 Mike Hawthorn 0.313
54 Eddie Irvine 0.250
54 Wolfgang von Trips 0.250
56 José Froilan González 0.236
57 Maurice Trintignant 0.234
58 Mark Webber 0.223
59 Bill Vukovich 0.222
60 Didier Pironi 0.196
61 Thierry Boutsen 0.188
62 Heinz-Harald Frentzen 0.184
63 Johnny Herbert 0.180
64 Jo Siffert 0.174
65 Giancarlo Fisichella 0.171
66 Pedro Rodriguez 0.168
67 Bob Sweikert 0.143
67 Johnnie Parsons 0.143
69 Jean-Pierre Jabouille 0.138
70 Peter Revson 0.133
71 Patrick Depailler 0.129
71 Patrick Tambay 0.129
73 Elio de Angelis 0.125
73 Giancarlo Baghetti 0.125
73 Innes Ireland 0.125
73 Lee Wallard 0.125
73 Pat Flaherty 0.125
73 Piero Taruffi 0.125
73 Sam Hanks 0.125
73 Troy Ruttman 0.125
81 Jo Bonnier 0.111
81 Ludovico Scarfiotti 0.111
81 Rodger Ward 0.111
84 Jim Rathmann 0.100
84 Lorenzo Bandini 0.100
84 Richie Ginther 0.100
87 François Cévert 0.091
87 Jimmy Bryan 0.091
87 Peter Gethin 0.091
90 Jean-Pierre Beltoise 0.083
91 Carlos Pace 0.071
91 Jochen Mass 0.071
91 Vittorio Brambilla 0.071
94 Alessandro Nannini 0.063
94 Luigi Musso 0.063
94 Luigi Villoresi 0.063
94 Olivier Panis 0.063
98 Gunnar Nilsson 0.059
98 Jean Alesi 0.059
100 Heikki Kovalainen 0.056
100 Jarno Trulli 0.056
100 Robert Kubica 0.056

Of course the above is a far more simplistic view than the methodology I adopt to calculate my ratings but I thought it might be of interest. It is all correct up to and including Monaco 2010.

Of course the above list is not related to the ratings I calculate in any way other than there may be a some correlation between being a good driver and winning lots of races. However, as quite rightly pointed by Zurich, having a good driver is just one component of winning races.

Take care

Tim
Last edited by Wurnos on 22 May 10, 05:12, edited 1 time in total.
#200285
sorry mate but as a Mclaren fan you got LH 31st and FA 15th?

When in the same car in the same year Lewis Matched Nando.

It don't make sense to me mate.



Makes plenty of sense to me. He has more championships and is a more proven, more accurate driver. You can say that Hammy is the youngest WC ever, and that certainly is a testament to his driving skill....but then he would have, should have been the youngest ever a year earlier...only for two consecutive races his nerves failed and he threw the championship out the window. There are no drivers in my recent memory who can single handedly take blame for losing a championship like that. If his accomplishments count, then so do his failures...and he failed huge. Until he makes up for that, he ranks below those who have not failed that huge and have accomplished more.

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