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#184235
there's two sides to every story - and then there's the truth as well. From the FIA's position that dont mean mclaren will be exonerated as far as the crime is concerned. they will have every right to revisit the issue as such. the FIA could easily refer the case to a different court and based on all the evidence still be found giulty and may even be given a harsher penalty for going up against the ruling body with the hope of getting away with it. the chance they could be found not giulty of spygate is everybody's guess so based on that angle I dont think they will go anywhere with it.

I think youre missing the point, its about the way the case was handled and the punishment that was dealt. so yeah McLaren has a good shot just as Briatore did.

I understand what you saying Bud but sometimes its best to let sleeping dogs lie because there is major differences between the two cases. Flav had his punishment overturned but I see no reason why his case may not be picked up by another entity that has a vested interest in that case because in no way does it mean that he aint guilty, however it appears he might get away with it based purely on the fact that the fIA rules and guidelines does not appear to cover the situation as completely as it should. I may be wrong as well because I dont know the rules and regs as well as many of you guys.
There only one question that to me is of importance.Q. in both instances was the perpetrators guilty??. A. Yes mclaren admitted that fact to a point. ( please correct me if Im wrong).
We truly had enough drama in F1 that costed teams a lot a bucks and sponsors. I think they should let it go and not wake the neighbourhoods dogs.

It's not about guilt. It's about the conduct of the "legal" system being faulty. To use an extreme example form a real legal system. Imagine a murder, under a legal system where one man (Party Y) is the investigator, judge, jury & executioner. Say that Party X is, in fact, guilty. Parties X & Y dislike eachother intensely already, whilst Party Y needs the family of the deceased to like him. Party Y decides to give the death penalty. I ask, is that a fair outcome, even if Party X did do it?

Ok Jensonb. Max was totally wrong in his conduct where Flav is concerned. Max should be dealt with in the worst ways allowed legally. I like Flavio tbh. however I feel he should still be charged and punished for his actions. mclaren and spygate ?? that case should stay closed. why draw attention to a issue that costed them more than the actual fine they got.
#184243
Yep should stay closed

That doesn't mean McLaren can't hold it over them.
#184244
Yep should stay closed

That doesn't mean McLaren can't hold it over them.

No, suppose not.
They can use it to almost blackmail them.
#184263
there's two sides to every story - and then there's the truth as well. From the FIA's position that dont mean mclaren will be exonerated as far as the crime is concerned. they will have every right to revisit the issue as such. the FIA could easily refer the case to a different court and based on all the evidence still be found giulty and may even be given a harsher penalty for going up against the ruling body with the hope of getting away with it. the chance they could be found not giulty of spygate is everybody's guess so based on that angle I dont think they will go anywhere with it.

I think youre missing the point, its about the way the case was handled and the punishment that was dealt. so yeah McLaren has a good shot just as Briatore did.

I understand what you saying Bud but sometimes its best to let sleeping dogs lie because there is major differences between the two cases. Flav had his punishment overturned but I see no reason why his case may not be picked up by another entity that has a vested interest in that case because in no way does it mean that he aint guilty, however it appears he might get away with it based purely on the fact that the fIA rules and guidelines does not appear to cover the situation as completely as it should. I may be wrong as well because I dont know the rules and regs as well as many of you guys.
There only one question that to me is of importance.Q. in both instances was the perpetrators guilty??. A. Yes mclaren admitted that fact to a point. ( please correct me if Im wrong).
We truly had enough drama in F1 that costed teams a lot a bucks and sponsors. I think they should let it go and not wake the neighbourhoods dogs.

It's not about guilt. It's about the conduct of the "legal" system being faulty. To use an extreme example form a real legal system. Imagine a murder, under a legal system where one man (Party Y) is the investigator, judge, jury & executioner. Say that Party X is, in fact, guilty. Parties X & Y dislike eachother intensely already, whilst Party Y needs the family of the deceased to like him. Party Y decides to give the death penalty. I ask, is that a fair outcome, even if Party X did do it?

Ok Jensonb. Max was totally wrong in his conduct where Flav is concerned. Max should be dealt with in the worst ways allowed legally. I like Flavio tbh. however I feel he should still be charged and punished for his actions. mclaren and spygate ?? that case should stay closed. why draw attention to a issue that costed them more than the actual fine they got.


Why should it stay closed? Yes it probably cost them the Mercedes partnership , so maybe some compensation is in order as well as the return of the fine. It was a corrupt decision made for the wrong reasons. The guilt or not of McLaren is irrelevant, as Jensnob says you cannot be prosecutor, investigator, judge and jury.Max was totally wrong here as well as with flavio.
#184273
I do not mean to ruffle any feathers or seem like I'm taking sides against McLaren with this reply, but! The motive behind any act is just as important than the act itself and McLaren admitted their wrong doing and were penalised. Was $100M too much, maybe, but did it effect their ontrack performance or the company in any way that us mere fans noticed, NO!

This whole situation concerning the $100M fine that keeps haunting the other non-McLaren fan members of the forum, who do not live for McLaren, is really getting out of hand. NO NO NO I am not saying this because I'm a Ferrari fan more than a McLaren fan, I'm saying that the winging is past date and we should all move forward.

Don Henley spoke words of wisdom when he sang;
Better put it all behind you cause life goes on
You keep carrin' that anger, it'll eat you inside baby.


:wink: tex
#184274
You miss the point. It was an unfair trial. It was a wrong and it should be righted. Then as you say we should all move on.
#184276
No I did not miss the point and I realize the penalty would not have been anywhere near as severe if MM was not in charge of the FIA. Hopefully we are past that sort of dictatorship and will have a more realistic and comprimising leader in Todt but I realize that is yet to be fully seen aswell.

I just want everyone to move on thats all.
#184283
yes it did affect McLaren as it ultimatly cost them their Mercedes partnership and some sponser money and creditability

Well then maybe they should not have cheated right?
#184285
yes it did affect McLaren as it ultimatly cost them their Mercedes partnership and some sponser money and creditability

Well then maybe they should not have cheated right?


Everybody cheated... Renault were in a similar situation and go a slap on the wrist. When you have people that go from team to team, you can't just say forget what you know about the last team you were with.

If someone hurt my credibility recklessly and purposefully, either because of a grudge, jealously, power or any other reason, and it didn't effect my current livelyhood, but did effect me being able to get a promotion, or to earn more money in the future and,

If the opportunity presented,.....


I would definately get even.


Not out of revenge, but out of righting a wrong..
#184286
I think rather than "getting even", McLaren (and the other teams) need to work with Todt and the FIA to ensure that such things do not happen again in future. The sport doesn't need yet more controversy, but it does need improvement and probably the best place to start with that is the governing body.
#184288
yes it did affect McLaren as it ultimatly cost them their Mercedes partnership and some sponser money and creditability

Well then maybe they should not have cheated right?


Everybody cheated... Renault were in a similar situation and go a slap on the wrist. When you have people that go from team to team, you can't just say forget what you know about the last team you were with.

If someone hurt my credibility recklessly and purposefully, either because of a grudge, jealously, power or any other reason, and it didn't effect my current livelyhood, but did effect me being able to get a promotion, or to earn more money in the future and,

If the opportunity presented,.....


I would definately get even.


Not out of revenge, but out of righting a wrong..


:yes:
#184291
yes it did affect McLaren as it ultimatly cost them their Mercedes partnership and some sponser money and creditability

Well then maybe they should not have cheated right?


Everybody cheated... Renault were in a similar situation and go a slap on the wrist. When you have people that go from team to team, you can't just say forget what you know about the last team you were with.

If someone hurt my credibility recklessly and purposefully, either because of a grudge, jealously, power or any other reason, and it didn't effect my current livelyhood, but did effect me being able to get a promotion, or to earn more money in the future and,

If the opportunity presented,.....


I would definately get even.


Not out of revenge, but out of righting a wrong..

Yet the fact still remains that McLaren cheated and admitted it, it is a cut and dry issue imho but then again we are just discussing our opinions right? You and others have yours and I have mine, no big deal really. :wavey:
#184292
If McLaren take it to the courts and still get punished for spy-gate, then Renault would probably be punished too.

No more will there be a 2-faced judicial system; now the teams will all have an equal standing before the courts. (As 2-faced as they often are.)

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