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[darwin dali]

I think it would be nice if it really worked like that, would keep things more interesting but I doubt it will actually help much. I expect the lower weight of the fuel at the start of the race will be cancelled out by the weaker engine, won't really help much IMO.

RB's cars are fast even with a less powerful Renault engine, remember? And even w/o the double decker diffuser

[Gaz]

Renault, which supplies Red Bull as well as its factory team, is believed to have the most fuel efficient engine, albeit one slightly down on power. A frugal engine will allow a team to run a lighter fuel load at the start of the race, a factor that will be worth a significant amount of lap time in the early stages of a grand prix. Fuel levels will no longer have a bearing on qualifying times, as the top ten won't have to run in Q3 with enough fuel to start the race. Therefore, the Renault powered cars may qualify lower down the grid but make significant gains during the opening laps.

Depends on the Numbers.

You'd need to know how much less fuel the Renault can run with compared to the Mercades, Ferrari or Cosworth Engines.

Vs the Power Diffrence

Also depends on the circuit and driver style too.

10-15 kg less than the Ferrari. About 7-10 I think less than the merc. In the fist few laps it will be worth about 0.45 sec. So the ferraris will be out of place-further forward than their opening few laps speed are capable of and vice versa for the renault engines.

mind if i ask where you got those numbers from?

And are you saying the Ferrari and Merc will close up to the Renault because of the Fuel Weight vs HP?

[darwin dali]

Renault, which supplies Red Bull as well as its factory team, is believed to have the most fuel efficient engine, albeit one slightly down on power. A frugal engine will allow a team to run a lighter fuel load at the start of the race, a factor that will be worth a significant amount of lap time in the early stages of a grand prix. Fuel levels will no longer have a bearing on qualifying times, as the top ten won't have to run in Q3 with enough fuel to start the race. Therefore, the Renault powered cars may qualify lower down the grid but make significant gains during the opening laps.

Depends on the Numbers.

You'd need to know how much less fuel the Renault can run with compared to the Mercades, Ferrari or Cosworth Engines.

Vs the Power Diffrence

Also depends on the circuit and driver style too.

10-15 kg less than the Ferrari. About 7-10 I think less than the merc. In the fist few laps it will be worth about 0.45 sec. So the ferraris will be out of place-further forward than their opening few laps speed are capable of and vice versa for the renault engines.

mind if i ask where you got those numbers from?

And are you saying the Ferrari and Merc will close up to the Renault because of the Fuel Weight vs HP?

Somebody has posted such numbers in some other thread - doubt they're accurate though...

[cap-dude]

Engine talk:
We have to remember that teams are actually working engine consumption. I'd assume this includes all engine suppliers, Ferrari, McLaren and Renault. So what we learnt last year likely won't apply to this year.

[Jensonb]

I think it would be nice if it really worked like that, would keep things more interesting but I doubt it will actually help much. I expect the lower weight of the fuel at the start of the race will be cancelled out by the weaker engine, won't really help much IMO.

RB's cars are fast even with a less powerful Renault engine, remember? And even w/o the double decker diffuser

Uh, what're you basing that on? Brawn was faster before Red Bull got the DDD

[darwin dali]

I think it would be nice if it really worked like that, would keep things more interesting but I doubt it will actually help much. I expect the lower weight of the fuel at the start of the race will be cancelled out by the weaker engine, won't really help much IMO.

RB's cars are fast even with a less powerful Renault engine, remember? And even w/o the double decker diffuser

Uh, what're you basing that on? Brawn was faster before Red Bull got the DDD

I said they were fast (not faster than everybody), and you can't deny that, they were fast w/o the diffuser.

[Jensonb]

I think it would be nice if it really worked like that, would keep things more interesting but I doubt it will actually help much. I expect the lower weight of the fuel at the start of the race will be cancelled out by the weaker engine, won't really help much IMO.

RB's cars are fast even with a less powerful Renault engine, remember? And even w/o the double decker diffuser

Uh, what're you basing that on? Brawn was faster before Red Bull got the DDD

I said they were fast (not faster than everybody), and you can't deny that, they were fast w/o the diffuser.

Well sure, but the Toyotas were fast around the same time. Lewis even managed to get the McLaren in the mix. If we start playing this game we can make the case for half the grid.

[madbrad]

You are making my brain hurt. Look its simple, they go round and round a circuit and the guy in front at the end wins OK?

[Jensonb]

You are making my brain hurt. Look its simple, they go round and round a circuit and the guy in front at the end wins OK?

No, that's NASCAR

[darwin dali]

I think it would be nice if it really worked like that, would keep things more interesting but I doubt it will actually help much. I expect the lower weight of the fuel at the start of the race will be cancelled out by the weaker engine, won't really help much IMO.

RB's cars are fast even with a less powerful Renault engine, remember? And even w/o the double decker diffuser

Uh, what're you basing that on? Brawn was faster before Red Bull got the DDD

I said they were fast (not faster than everybody), and you can't deny that, they were fast w/o the diffuser.

Well sure, but the Toyotas were fast around the same time. Lewis even managed to get the McLaren in the mix. If we start playing this game we can make the case for half the grid.

Toyotas had the double decker diffuser! RB was the fastest car of the rest (the ones that didn't have a double deck diffuser) and quite often challenged some of the diffuser cars. So, RB was fast, really fast and then overtook the Brawns in speed once they got upgraded.

[Hansy]

You are making my brain hurt. Look its simple, they go round and round a circuit and the guy in front at the end wins OK?

No, that's NASCAR

[Jensonb]

Toyotas had the double decker diffuser! RB was the fastest car of the rest (the ones that didn't have a double deck diffuser) and quite often challenged some of the diffuser cars. So, RB was fast, really fast and then overtook the Brawns in speed once they got upgraded.

That's not really my point DD, I'm saying that if we start looking to the past like that to predict the future, there are other arguments to be made in favour of other cars as well, and we'll go round and round in circles till the cow's come home. We're comparing engines, so for the time being let's stick to the engines.

[darwin dali]

Toyotas had the double decker diffuser! RB was the fastest car of the rest (the ones that didn't have a double deck diffuser) and quite often challenged some of the diffuser cars. So, RB was fast, really fast and then overtook the Brawns in speed once they got upgraded.

That's not really my point DD, I'm saying that if we start looking to the past like that to predict the future, there are other arguments to be made in favour of other cars as well, and we'll go round and round in circles till the cow's come home. We're comparing engines, so for the time being let's stick to the engines.

Well, the engines were my starting point of this. You said:
"I expect the lower weight of the fuel at the start of the race will be cancelled out by the weaker engine, won't really help much IMO."
That's when I stated that RB (with the Renault engine that was weaker last year already) was still one of the fastest cars in the field, even w/o the double decker diffuser. Make sense now?

[racechick]

Renault, which supplies Red Bull as well as its factory team, is believed to have the most fuel efficient engine, albeit one slightly down on power. A frugal engine will allow a team to run a lighter fuel load at the start of the race, a factor that will be worth a significant amount of lap time in the early stages of a grand prix. Fuel levels will no longer have a bearing on qualifying times, as the top ten won't have to run in Q3 with enough fuel to start the race. Therefore, the Renault powered cars may qualify lower down the grid but make significant gains during the opening laps.

Depends on the Numbers.

You'd need to know how much less fuel the Renault can run with compared to the Mercades, Ferrari or Cosworth Engines.

Vs the Power Diffrence

Also depends on the circuit and driver style too.

10-15 kg less than the Ferrari. About 7-10 I think less than the merc. In the fist few laps it will be worth about 0.45 sec. So the ferraris will be out of place-further forward than their opening few laps speed are capable of and vice versa for the renault engines.

mind if i ask where you got those numbers from?

And are you saying the Ferrari and Merc will close up to the Renault because of the Fuel Weight vs HP?

Somebody has posted such numbers in some other thread - doubt they're accurate though...

I got those numbers from autosport, and I was the one who posted on another thread-I'll go check them and post the accurate wording. No Im not saying the Renault will close up because of it, though it may, Im saying the Ferrari's (at one end of the fuel weight) and renault (at the other end) will be out of position at the beginning of the race.

[darwin dali]

Renault, which supplies Red Bull as well as its factory team, is believed to have the most fuel efficient engine, albeit one slightly down on power. A frugal engine will allow a team to run a lighter fuel load at the start of the race, a factor that will be worth a significant amount of lap time in the early stages of a grand prix. Fuel levels will no longer have a bearing on qualifying times, as the top ten won't have to run in Q3 with enough fuel to start the race. Therefore, the Renault powered cars may qualify lower down the grid but make significant gains during the opening laps.

Depends on the Numbers.

You'd need to know how much less fuel the Renault can run with compared to the Mercades, Ferrari or Cosworth Engines.

Vs the Power Diffrence

Also depends on the circuit and driver style too.

10-15 kg less than the Ferrari. About 7-10 I think less than the merc. In the fist few laps it will be worth about 0.45 sec. So the ferraris will be out of place-further forward than their opening few laps speed are capable of and vice versa for the renault engines.

mind if i ask where you got those numbers from?

And are you saying the Ferrari and Merc will close up to the Renault because of the Fuel Weight vs HP?

Somebody has posted such numbers in some other thread - doubt they're accurate though...

I got those numbers from autosport, and I was the one who posted on another thread-I'll go check them and post the accurate wording. No Im not saying the Renault will close up because of it, though it may, Im saying the Ferrari's (at one end of the fuel weight) and renault (at the other end) will be out of position at the beginning of the race.

I understand. And yes, it would be cool to see those numbers again (too lazy to search for them on here ).