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[FerrariFan63]

Sorry but your wrong here you obviously don't get it.

If you have a car right that s*** why not use that car to test better bits as part of your 2010 prep not saying they make a B=Spec Ferrari just new ideas and evolve them its not like theres a big regs change in 2008 i could understand this but in 2009 it just seams stupid.

No, it's quite simple. In "writing off the 2009 season" that does not mean that Ferrari will not put any new developments on the 2009 car. It's just that those new pieces will be part of evolving designs for the 2010 car, not intended to optimise the performance of the 2009 car. For certain non-diffuser teams, Ferrari being one of the best examples, any likely 2010 car will be very different, particularly at the rear, from the 2009 car. So putting 2010 development bits on the 2009 car will most likely produce a semi-hybrid, which will not optimise 2009 performance and results.

The situation for Red Bull is very different. Their car at the rear is not very compatible with an optimal double decker diffuser. As Brundle said, there are suspension bits where the extra deck of the diffuser would go. But, RBR is looking very much in with a shot of a very good 2009 result, perhaps even the title. So, it's imperative that they optimise their 2009 car and 2009 results. Meaning that development has to be focussed around the parts most compatible with the basic 2009 car, and that if RBR needs a considerably different design next year, that they will get behind other teams that write off this year and starting thinking about 2010 during this season.

In past years and decades, teams might work on a "B" spec car for the second half of the season. I'm assuming that without in-season testing, that it would be very difficult to develop the car sufficiently to compensate for the losses involved in introducing a new untested car at races. So, I'd think that only teams that have written off the 2009 season will introduce B spec cars.

[Gaz]

Sorry but your wrong here you obviously don't get it.

If you have a car right that s*** why not use that car to test better bits as part of your 2010 prep not saying they make a B=Spec Ferrari just new ideas and evolve them its not like theres a big regs change in 2008 i could understand this but in 2009 it just seams stupid.

No, it's quite simple. In "writing off the 2009 season" that does not mean that Ferrari will not put any new developments on the 2009 car. It's just that those new pieces will be part of evolving designs for the 2010 car, not intended to optimise the performance of the 2009 car. For certain non-diffuser teams, Ferrari being one of the best examples, any likely 2010 car will be very different, particularly at the rear, from the 2009 car. So putting 2010 development bits on the 2009 car will most likely produce a semi-hybrid, which will not optimise 2009 performance and results.

The situation for Red Bull is very different. Their car at the rear is not very compatible with an optimal double decker diffuser. As Brundle said, there are suspension bits where the extra deck of the diffuser would go. But, RBR is looking very much in with a shot of a very good 2009 result, perhaps even the title. So, it's imperative that they optimise their 2009 car and 2009 results. Meaning that development has to be focussed around the parts most compatible with the basic 2009 car, and that if RBR needs a considerably different design next year, that they will get behind other teams that write off this year and starting thinking about 2010 during this season.

In past years and decades, teams might work on a "B" spec car for the second half of the season. I'm assuming that without in-season testing, that it would be very difficult to develop the car sufficiently to compensate for the losses involved in introducing a new untested car at races. So, I'd think that only teams that have written off the 2009 season will introduce B spec cars.

So whats the point the Ferrari's not that special (like the RBR) that you can not deveop the double diffuser.

Brawn still well infront fuel correct but as we have seen today not unbeatable.

Jenson's 15 points ahead of LH i don't see why he can't close that gap if he starts getting podiums in Bahrain and Wins in Spain and i belive Mclaren can and Ferrari are equally as compitent as Mclaren.

Why throw away a championship to get a marginal advantage next year.

[bud]

[csrracer]

If you dont understand then theres no point continuing.

Good to see you admitting defeat. Now let's see you do the time some more of the many times a day you get pwned on this forum

Sorry but your wrong here you obviously don't get it.

If you have a car right that s*** why not use that car to test better bits as part of your 2010 prep not saying they make a B=Spec Ferrari just new ideas and evolve them its not like theres a big regs change in 2008 i could understand this but in 2009 it just seams stupid.

Ferrari has said that their 2009 car is just not going to accept a rear diffuser that will work properly without a complete redesign. I'm guessing they will try to modify their 2009 car as much as they can, but to take full advantage of the downforce from the Double Decker Diffuser they'll have to design a car specifically for that.
Frankly I think Braun's diffuser is only a small part of why his car is so fast, and Ross is probably laughing at something else he's done to make his cars quicker that no bodies caught on to yet.

[bud]

If you dont understand then theres no point continuing.

Good to see you admitting defeat. Now let's see you do the time some more of the many times a day you get pwned on this forum

Sorry but your wrong here you obviously don't get it.

If you have a car right that s*** why not use that car to test better bits as part of your 2010 prep not saying they make a B=Spec Ferrari just new ideas and evolve them its not like theres a big regs change in 2008 i could understand this but in 2009 it just seams stupid.

Ferrari has said that their 2009 car is just not going to accept a rear diffuser that will work properly without a complete redesign. I'm guessing they will try to modify their 2009 car as much as they can, but to take full advantage of the downforce from the Double Decker Diffuser they'll have to design a car specifically for that.
Frankly I think Braun's diffuser is only a small part of why his car is so fast, and Ross is probably laughing at something else he's done to make his cars quicker that no bodies caught on to yet.

they would already be redesigning the rear end of the car as we speak as are most of the cars on the grid.

[FerrariFan63]

So whats the point the Ferrari's not that special (like the RBR) that you can not deveop the double diffuser.

As mentioned above, the Ferrrai won't take a double decker diffuser without a considerable redesign.

Brawn still well infront fuel correct but as we have seen today not unbeatable.

Not unbeatable by other teams, but Ferrari are nowhere near them.

Jenson's 15 points ahead of LH i don't see why he can't close that gap if he starts getting podiums in Bahrain and Wins in Spain and i belive Mclaren can and Ferrari are equally as compitent as Mclaren.

It's not just a matter of competence, it's also a matter of the starting point. Both teams made an error of interpretation given the rules. But McLaren's car is supposedly going to be easier to bolt a new diffuser onto. So there is more opportunity for McLaren to catch the Brawns (and other teams), and less of a points deficit to catch up.

Why throw away a championship to get a marginal advantage next year.

That depends on how great the chance of a championship this year, and the size of the advantage to be gained for next year. Unless Ferrari improve dramatically within a few races, the chance of winning any championship will start getting very, very, small. Such that there will be very little to "throw away". And why do you claim that the advantage for next year will be "marginal"?

[csrracer]

If you dont understand then theres no point continuing.

Good to see you admitting defeat. Now let's see you do the time some more of the many times a day you get pwned on this forum

Sorry but your wrong here you obviously don't get it.

If you have a car right that s*** why not use that car to test better bits as part of your 2010 prep not saying they make a B=Spec Ferrari just new ideas and evolve them its not like theres a big regs change in 2008 i could understand this but in 2009 it just seams stupid.

Ferrari has said that their 2009 car is just not going to accept a rear diffuser that will work properly without a complete redesign. I'm guessing they will try to modify their 2009 car as much as they can, but to take full advantage of the downforce from the Double Decker Diffuser they'll have to design a car specifically for that.
Frankly I think Braun's diffuser is only a small part of why his car is so fast, and Ross is probably laughing at something else he's done to make his cars quicker that no bodies caught on to yet.

they would already be redesigning the rear end of the car as we speak as are most of the cars on the grid.

Of course but they still have to build it, wind tunnel test it, (are they restricted from the wind tunnel under the new regs?) and the only way to road test it is during practice days, this could take most of the season.

[FerrariFan63]

they would already be redesigning the rear end of the car as we speak as are most of the cars on the grid.

Without in-season testing, the teams can only do so much. Otherwise they risk bringing a new untested undeveloped car to races which is unlikely to be much, if any, of an improvement. And certainly nowhere near optimal. OK for teams who have given up on this year's championship, but not for those still in with a shout.

[EwanM]

they would already be redesigning the rear end of the car as we speak as are most of the cars on the grid.

Without in-season testing, the teams can only do so much. Otherwise they risk bringing a new untested undeveloped car to races which is unlikely to be much, if any, of an improvement. And certainly nowhere near optimal. OK for teams who have given up on this year's championship, but not for those still in with a shout.

I think its quite a fable over the ban on track testing. The use of Computers now seriously speed up the design process. Renault's new rear end was all done through computer designing and the wind tunnel. ANd it was fast without proper testing.

[bud]

Of course but they still have to build it, wind tunnel test it, (are they restricted from the wind tunnel under the new regs?) and the only way to road test it is during practice days, this could take most of the season.

not 100% sure on the wind tunnel testing, i think thats next year where its limited but track test it? they have 14 more races to track test it besides actual track testing is by far more beneficial than a wind tunnel or computer model for collecting data.

[FerrariFan63]

I think its quite a fable over the ban on track testing. The use of Computers now seriously speed up the design process. Renault's new rear end was all done through computer designing and the wind tunnel. ANd it was fast without proper testing.

Certainly a lot can be done by computer. But I don't think that testing has become irrelevant. Otherwise you wouldn't have pundits such as Brundle saying how it was now not possible for top teams to "spend their way out of trouble" if they have a poor start to the season.

Alonso had the 9th fastest race lap in all races so far. So while introducing the double decker diffuser hasn't seemed to crucify him, it hasn't helped a huge amount. Possibly because without far-reaching redesigns and significant testing, the teams that come late to a double decker diffuser aren't going to get the advantage from it that Brawn does.

[EwanM]

I think its quite a fable over the ban on track testing. The use of Computers now seriously speed up the design process. Renault's new rear end was all done through computer designing and the wind tunnel. ANd it was fast without proper testing.

Certainly a lot can be done by computer. But I don't think that testing has become irrelevant. Otherwise you wouldn't have pundits such as Brundle saying how it was now not possible for top teams to "spend their way out of trouble" if they have a poor start to the season.

Alonso had the 9th fastest race lap in all races so far. So while introducing the double decker diffuser hasn't seemed to crucify him, it hasn't helped a huge amount. Possibly because without far-reaching redesigns and significant testing, the teams that come late to a double decker diffuser aren't going to get the advantage from it that Brawn does.

You can't really count Alonso's time today though as it was in wet conditions/ We'll see in Bahrain.

[csrracer]

Of course but they still have to build it, wind tunnel test it, (are they restricted from the wind tunnel under the new regs?) and the only way to road test it is during practice days, this could take most of the season.

not 100% sure on the wind tunnel testing, i think thats next year where its limited but track test it? they have 14 more races to track test it besides actual track testing is by far more beneficial than a wind tunnel or computer model for collecting data.

and by the time they've track tested it during practice sessions the season will be over, therefore they are working on their 2010 car.

[bud]

Of course but they still have to build it, wind tunnel test it, (are they restricted from the wind tunnel under the new regs?) and the only way to road test it is during practice days, this could take most of the season.

not 100% sure on the wind tunnel testing, i think thats next year where its limited but track test it? they have 14 more races to track test it besides actual track testing is by far more beneficial than a wind tunnel or computer model for collecting data.

and by the time they've track tested it during practice sessions the season will be over, therefore they are working on their 2010 car.

by track testing parts on their 09 car and understanding whats not working they are infact working on their 09 car. its pretty simple, if you look at it this way, whats good now is good for 2010 same regulations

look i think people think Ferrari will do a Brawn and stop developing and concentrate on 2010. totally different situation, firstly Honda, by developing the 08 car further would get them no where in 09 as obviously it is a different set of rules. now if the rules didnt change do you think Honda would have stopped development on their 08 car?
Now we have a new set of rules and Ferrari is trying to come to terms with them but they are not going to just scrap what they have and start from scratch in 2010 thats just plain stupid! Thet are already working on a redesign of their rear end on the F60 now this will obviously play a role in the development of the 2010 car thus it will be an evolution.

[csrracer]

That's a good point maybe it's Ferrari's way of saying we are slow and will be slow the rest of the year.