FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[racechick]

Prost was very good but Senna had magic. He left you breathless. Schumacher would not have had what he did had senna lived.

You say that like it is gospel. No one needs to iterate here on the ability of Senna, because his races speaks for him, but it's a bit far-fetched to say if he lived then Schumacher would not have done what he did, considering Senna had a poor start to that season and Schumacher was really picking up around that time. There were many possibilities, not one.

Look at the cars they were in. And the beneton was illegal.

Says who? The end result was that everything was investigated and amidst the nail-biting, finger pointing, and fines, it was cleared in courts.

FIA courts

When the cars were investigated for traction control it took Flavio THREE WEEKS to provide the FIA with the evidence! Other teams submitted it immediately AND they knew one team was using traction control but decided to do nothing!!

This is not only with FIA courts but any kind of legal proceeding, just because they took 3 weeks to hand it doesn't necessarily mean they were illegally dealing with traction controls, you'd be kicked out of law school for even suggesting such a thing, it's known as "circumstantial evidence". You can rofl all you want, but the world of F1 is a lot bigger than this forum, perhaps you will realize that eventually...


But thanks anyways for giving me news from 1994 which everyone has heard over and over again, it's gotten to the point that my grandma might be able to quote whole sources. I don't know the full details, and in either case, the FIA had more details than we do.

In case you haven't realized it, it sounds like you are a propagating a conspiracy theory here, what next, appeal to Senna's hearing by standing on the circuit trying to hear the traction control in effect?

Despite having it explained more than once, you clearly dont understand that quoting part of what someone says and not the entire piece can change the intended meaning. Ive had enough now. If you cant see that then there's no point debating this further with you.

[scotty]

Prost was very good but Senna had magic.

This, there was an aura about Senna too - little things like how he described that qualifying lap/ session in Monaco...

[McLaren Fan]

I reckon Schumacher was a better all round F1 driver than Senna. Senna had more ultimate pace and was a faster driver but Schumacher wasn't at all far off and had an absolute mastery of every other aspect of what is required to be successful in F1. Schumacher's greatest achievement was turning Ferrari into such a dominant team. There is no one else in the history of the sport that i can think of who could have done that.

Schumacher turned Ferrari around, along with Luca di Montezemolo, Jean Todt, Paolo Martinelli, Rory Byrne, Ross Brawn, rear gunners Eddie Irvine and Rubens Barrichello.

Ferrari themselves said that Senna would have been offered a similar contract to one Schumacher got; i.e., a black cheque and complete freedom to appoint whoever he wanted, when he wanted and to organise the team as he wanted. Given what we know about Senna, I think he and Ferrari would have done alright.

[Gilles 27]

oh for sure Senna would have elevated Ferrari to a championship winning position. Schumacher was responsible for the appointment and continued employment of the men who were fundamental to Ferrari's dominance from 2000 and for their continued competitiveness in the last two seasons. There were so many occasions in Schumacher's career at Ferrari when he drew on his own tactical nous and technical knowledge to progress in a race beyond the point that his driving talent alone would have allowed. This ability coupled with a near Senna (not quite) turn of speed and the exceptional stamina levels which enabled him to maintain this speed throughout a race distance, is what made him the most complete Grand Prix driver of all time.

[McLaren Fan]

I could have picked the people Schumacher chose to go to Ferrari. Who was willing to stump up the unlimited amount of cash? Luca di Montezemolo. How was a cut-throat team boss who would tolerate no insubordination and demand total commitment to the team? Jean Todt. Who was the best engine designer at the time? Paolo Martinelli. Who was the best strategist in the paddock? Ross Brawn. Who was the best car designer? Either Rory Byrne or Adrian Newey. The choices were obvious. Senna, no doubt, would have chosen a very similar line-up. You talk about Schumacher's tactical savvy, technical knowledge and supreme fitness, but Senna has all of these qualities as well. As a matter of fact, he was the first driver to become involved in these things. Now, saying as it's clear you use these categories to define greatness, then I think we have to say was greater, given he was faster than Schumacher and had everything else he had.

[SAS88]

I could have picked the people Schumacher chose to go to Ferrari. Who was willing to stump up the unlimited amount of cash? Luca di Montezemolo. How was a cut-throat team boss who would tolerate no insubordination and demand total commitment to the team? Jean Todt. Who was the best engine designer at the time? Paolo Martinelli. Who was the best strategist in the paddock? Ross Brawn. Who was the best car designer? Either Rory Byrne or Adrian Newey. The choices were obvious. Senna, no doubt, would have chosen a very similar line-up. You talk about Schumacher's tactical savvy, technical knowledge and supreme fitness, but Senna has all of these qualities as well. As a matter of fact, he was the first driver to become involved in these things. Now, saying as it's clear you use these categories to define greatness, then I think we have to say was greater, given he was faster than Schumacher and had everything else he had.

Mate, no one was denying what Senna had. You can't just assume things would have turned out that way, he's dead. The only thing that's available. is the fact that Schumacher is living and has won 7 championships.

How can you say he was "greater" - given what we had to the start of that season in itself and the starting years, Schumacher's rise was astounding. Extrapolation works well in physics, not predicting results in the sporting world.

I have seen plenty of Senna and Schumacher racing too, there is nothing to suggest Senna is "greater" as you claim, both had great runs and bad runs, both performed to levels people could not imagine, both revolutionized the sporting world, both made incredible track times, both won with sometimes problematic cars against fierce rivals.

There is nothing more to add to this.

[McLaren Fan]

Hold on a moment. You are the one who's being made all sorts of grand of claims about Schumacher's superiority over other Formula One drivers, and now you are chastising me for correcting you on some points.

[SAS88]

Hold on a moment. You are the one who's being made all sorts of grand of claims about Schumacher's superiority over other Formula One drivers, and now you are chastising me for correcting you on some points.

MS is my favourite, that's one thing, the only other issue regarding him and other drivers have been with the Jenson Button on some other thread. I wasn't aware that I have made "grand claims", excuse me for asserting MS's skills are better than Jenson's.

You would well appreciate why I don't subscribe to your comments about driver superiority, as I don't see how you came to the conclusion that Senna is better than MS, it's all conjecture.

Excessive exaggeration is a no-no.

[texasmr2]

There is no reason to compare the two, Schumi and Ayrton, because we actually never got the chance to witness their skills against each other honesestly . I consider them both to be F1 gods.