FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[7UpJordan]

I remember Piquet senior once had a bit of a rant at a journalist for assuming "every driver's dream is to drive for Ferrari" when he got asked "when will you complete your dream move to Ferrari?".

[scotty]

I remember Piquet senior once had a bit of a rant at a journalist for assuming "every driver's dream is to drive for Ferrari" when he got asked "when will you complete your dream move to Ferrari?".

Haha, what a douche. I hate that man. He got completely owned by Mansell who then actually ended up being a Ferrari hero as well, hilariously enough!

[McLaren Fan]

Hamilton's definitely not planning on looking for any new drives any time soon, but he may fall into the same trap Senna did. Senna became the most expensive driver on the grid as much because of his marketability as a sporting icon as for his talent in the car, and Hamilton looks like he will be the same, but towards the end of his time at McLaren the amount spent on Senna's salary was money diverted away from developing the car, so his car and career suffered as a consequence. Hamilton must watch this.

But seriously, after all that's gone on in the last two years, I can't ever see Hamilton driving for Ferrari.

To be honest, I never really saw Senna's salary at McLaren as a big issue. To be honest, at the time, McLaren were only team who afford to pay that kind of money and still be competitive. What messed things up for McLaren was Honda deciding to leave Formula One. The beginnings of things going wrong were in 1991, when Honda's engine wasn't as good as their usual standard. In 1992, - disgracefully - they didn't give a toss and a had the cheek to provide McLaren with a load of rubbish, which was a real shame, for the MP4/7 chassis was pretty good. Thereafter, the engineers weren't able to design the car properly, for they had inadequate information about the specifications of the engine, which, again, was really a pity, for some of the chassis were great. The MP4/8 was a brilliant piece of engineering from McLaren. If it had a decent engine, it would have won the title without doubt.

Let's say McLaren do have a dip in form in the coming years. Who's to say Hamilton will go to Ferrari anyway? Ferrari are not eternally successful. There are years they produced mediocre cars, but won titles because everybody else was so average. Ross Brawn himself said that. McLaren, for instance, had all kinds of political problems going on from 2000-2005 which affected the team's performance. There are several teams now who see themselves capable of challenging for races and titles. If McLaren aren't up to standard, Hamilton will go to the team that is. Irvine is talking complete rubbish.

[McLaren Fan]

I remember Piquet senior once had a bit of a rant at a journalist for assuming "every driver's dream is to drive for Ferrari" when he got asked "when will you complete your dream move to Ferrari?".

Aye. It's about the only sensible thing I remember him saying.

[scotty]

The beginnings of things going wrong were in 1991, when Honda's engine wasn't as good as their usual standard. In 1992, - disgracefully - they didn't give a toss and a had the cheek to provide McLaren with a load of rubbish, which was a real shame, for the MP4/7 chassis was pretty good. Thereafter, the engineers weren't able to design the car properly, for they had inadequate information about the specifications of the engine, which, again, was really a pity, for some of the chassis were great. The MP4/8 was a brilliant piece of engineering from McLaren. If it had a decent engine, it would have won the title without doubt.

I definately agree with you about Honda's leaving causing lots of problems at McLaren, but man, the FW14b was something else entirely, so i don't quite get the basis of your final point...?!

[McLaren Fan]

The beginnings of things going wrong were in 1991, when Honda's engine wasn't as good as their usual standard. In 1992, - disgracefully - they didn't give a toss and a had the cheek to provide McLaren with a load of rubbish, which was a real shame, for the MP4/7 chassis was pretty good. Thereafter, the engineers weren't able to design the car properly, for they had inadequate information about the specifications of the engine, which, again, was really a pity, for some of the chassis were great. The MP4/8 was a brilliant piece of engineering from McLaren. If it had a decent engine, it would have won the title without doubt.

I definately agree with you about Honda's leaving causing lots of problems at McLaren, but man, the FW14b was something else entirely, so i don't quite get the basis of your final point...?!

What I mean is that the MP4/8 was a fantastic chassis. McLaren spent a lot of time on it and its active-ride suspension, for instance, was superior to what was being used on the FW14B. All of that wonderful engine on McLaren's part was ruined by Honda's antics and Ford's asthmatic engine. It was a good forty horsepower down on the Renault engine. When you're giving away that much in engine power, you've not got a hope in hell of competing.

Edit: I should also say, those Honda engines did not come cheap. Honda should have been sued for breach of contract or something.

[7UpJordan]

I think the big turning point came when McLaren tested the Lamborghini V12 and then decided to use the Peugeot V10 instead even though the Lambo was evidently much more powerful.

[deMuRe]

Hamilton needs a bit more experience before he goes to Ferrari, McLaren are an excellent training ground for the Scuderia...

[racechick]

Hamilton needs a bit more experience before he goes to Ferrari, McLaren are an excellent training ground for the Scuderia...

More experience? He just beat them in his second year!

Hamilton doesnt need ferrari!

[McLaren Fan]

I think the big turning point came when McLaren tested the Lamborghini V12 and then decided to use the Peugeot V10 instead even though the Lambo was evidently much more powerful.

Oh, don't get me started on this. Over the 1992-3 closed season, Ron Dennis had plans to buy the Ligier team and transfer their engines to McLaren's cars. Renault agreed to this plan, but Elf were not happy. They only wanted Renault engines to be used with their fuel. Dennis didn't want to break his deal with Shell, so the deal fell through. At this stage, things were looking bleak, but the offer of a Lamborghini engine came along. In testing, it was two seconds a lap faster than Ford's inept engine. Imagine how well McLaren could have done with that unit in the MP4/7. Perhaps Dennis believed Peugeot brought a better chance of medium-term success, and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but you can't help by feel all of those bleak years in the mid-1990s could have been avoided.

[7UpJordan]

I think the big turning point came when McLaren tested the Lamborghini V12 and then decided to use the Peugeot V10 instead even though the Lambo was evidently much more powerful.

Oh, don't get me started on this. Over the 1992-3 closed season, Ron Dennis had plans to buy the Ligier team and transfer their engines to McLaren's cars. Renault agreed to this plan, but Elf were not happy. They only wanted Renault engines to be used with their fuel. Dennis didn't want to break his deal with Shell, so the deal fell through. At this stage, things were looking bleak, but the offer of a Lamborghini engine came along. In testing, it was two seconds a lap faster than Ford's inept engine. Imagine how well McLaren could have done with that unit in the MP4/7. Perhaps Dennis believed Peugeot brought a better chance of medium-term success, and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but you can't help by feel all of those bleak years in the mid-1990s could have been avoided.

And guess who they picked up as part of the Peugeot deal as well for when Hakkinen caused the huge pile-up at Hockenheim that year and got banned...

[McLaren Fan]

I think the big turning point came when McLaren tested the Lamborghini V12 and then decided to use the Peugeot V10 instead even though the Lambo was evidently much more powerful.

Oh, don't get me started on this. Over the 1992-3 closed season, Ron Dennis had plans to buy the Ligier team and transfer their engines to McLaren's cars. Renault agreed to this plan, but Elf were not happy. They only wanted Renault engines to be used with their fuel. Dennis didn't want to break his deal with Shell, so the deal fell through. At this stage, things were looking bleak, but the offer of a Lamborghini engine came along. In testing, it was two seconds a lap faster than Ford's inept engine. Imagine how well McLaren could have done with that unit in the MP4/7. Perhaps Dennis believed Peugeot brought a better chance of medium-term success, and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but you can't help by feel all of those bleak years in the mid-1990s could have been avoided.

And guess who they picked up as part of the Peugeot deal as well for when Hakkinen caused the huge pile-up at Hockenheim that year and got banned...

Our favourite: Philippe Alliot.

[7UpJordan]

I think the big turning point came when McLaren tested the Lamborghini V12 and then decided to use the Peugeot V10 instead even though the Lambo was evidently much more powerful.

Oh, don't get me started on this. Over the 1992-3 closed season, Ron Dennis had plans to buy the Ligier team and transfer their engines to McLaren's cars. Renault agreed to this plan, but Elf were not happy. They only wanted Renault engines to be used with their fuel. Dennis didn't want to break his deal with Shell, so the deal fell through. At this stage, things were looking bleak, but the offer of a Lamborghini engine came along. In testing, it was two seconds a lap faster than Ford's inept engine. Imagine how well McLaren could have done with that unit in the MP4/7. Perhaps Dennis believed Peugeot brought a better chance of medium-term success, and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but you can't help by feel all of those bleak years in the mid-1990s could have been avoided.

And guess who they picked up as part of the Peugeot deal as well for when Hakkinen caused the huge pile-up at Hockenheim that year and got banned...

Our favourite: Philipe Alliot.

Indeed, still he wasn't as bad as Jean-Louis Schlesser when he made a cameo for Williams at Monza in 1988 when he was deputising for Mansell who was ill with chickenpox.

[McLaren Fan]

I think the big turning point came when McLaren tested the Lamborghini V12 and then decided to use the Peugeot V10 instead even though the Lambo was evidently much more powerful.

Oh, don't get me started on this. Over the 1992-3 closed season, Ron Dennis had plans to buy the Ligier team and transfer their engines to McLaren's cars. Renault agreed to this plan, but Elf were not happy. They only wanted Renault engines to be used with their fuel. Dennis didn't want to break his deal with Shell, so the deal fell through. At this stage, things were looking bleak, but the offer of a Lamborghini engine came along. In testing, it was two seconds a lap faster than Ford's inept engine. Imagine how well McLaren could have done with that unit in the MP4/7. Perhaps Dennis believed Peugeot brought a better chance of medium-term success, and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but you can't help by feel all of those bleak years in the mid-1990s could have been avoided.

And guess who they picked up as part of the Peugeot deal as well for when Hakkinen caused the huge pile-up at Hockenheim that year and got banned...

Our favourite: Philipe Alliot.

Indeed, still he wasn't as bad as Jean-Louis Schlesser when he made a cameo for Williams at Monza in 1988 when he was deputising for Mansell who was ill with chickenpox.

And if there was ever one moment in my time following Formula One and McLaren that annoyed me so much, it was that. One race short of a complete clean sweep, and Italy after Enzo Ferrari died. All the tifosi must have been laughing their legs off at that one.

[deMuRe]

Hamilton needs a bit more experience before he goes to Ferrari, McLaren are an excellent training ground for the Scuderia...

More experience? He just beat them in his second year!

Hamilton doesnt need ferrari!

He scored the most driver points, they still won the constructors. Let me guess, you don't know about the constructors championship, because it doesn't involve Lewis...