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By vegas
#52037
This is the first I have heard that KERS was voluntary for 2009. It should be mandatory! If some cars have it and some don't then its not really "Formula 1" is it? What is BMW thinking? with the chaos of fuel prices, British truck drivers striking. The development of systems like KERS is even more important. BMW should be first in line to implement a KERS system in F1.
User avatar
By przemo
#52040
But what's the point if it doesn't help you win a championship? If the car with KERS is slower than without it then I don't see the point. They can try to implement it in tests until they actually get an advantage and then put it inside a race car.
User avatar
By vegas
#52045
But what's the point if it doesn't help you win a championship? If the car with KERS is slower than without it then I don't see the point.


I see your point, but F1 is about vehicle performance and efficiency. Who is to say the KERS system slows down the cars? I haven't yet seen the system implemented into a modern F1. If the FIA made KERS mandatory then it wouldn't matter if KERS did or didn't slow down the cars, they would all be equal. The only difference is they would all be developing greater technology that the world is in desperate need of.
User avatar
By przemo
#52046
But what's the point if it doesn't help you win a championship? If the car with KERS is slower than without it then I don't see the point.


I see your point, but F1 is about vehicle performance and efficiency. Who is to say the KERS system slows down the cars? I haven't yet seen the system implemented into a modern F1. If the FIA made KERS mandatory then it wouldn't matter if KERS did or didn't slow down the cars, they would all be equal. The only difference is they would all be developing greater technology that the world is in desperate need of.

Yeah, I know that it may be important to develop this system. Maybe they won't force anyone to use it, because not all teams have the resources to research it. I'm not really sure if there's a common specification of some sort, or if each team has to do it on its own. This thing is pretty heavy, so the gain from the energy recovered could be less than the loss resulting from the weight. If I recall some teams already tried to implement it in the past, but I don't know the results. If KERS would be mandatory, they should also increase the minimum weight of the car.
User avatar
By bud
#52092
But what's the point if it doesn't help you win a championship? If the car with KERS is slower than without it then I don't see the point.


I see your point, but F1 is about vehicle performance and efficiency. Who is to say the KERS system slows down the cars? I haven't yet seen the system implemented into a modern F1. If the FIA made KERS mandatory then it wouldn't matter if KERS did or didn't slow down the cars, they would all be equal. The only difference is they would all be developing greater technology that the world is in desperate need of.


go watch a movie called "who killed the electric car" the car manufacturers are quite happy with the current petrol internal combustion engines.
User avatar
By darwin dali
#52094
This is the first I have heard that KERS was voluntary for 2009. It should be mandatory! If some cars have it and some don't then its not really "Formula 1" is it? What is BMW thinking? with the chaos of fuel prices, British truck drivers striking. The development of systems like KERS is even more important. BMW should be first in line to implement a KERS system in F1.


I think making it optional (at first) has more to do with helping the smaller teams who can't afford the resources to come up with a car with the new regs in place AND at the same time develop a KERS.
User avatar
By McLaren Fan
#55287
From F1 Live:

BMW Sauber embracing KERS
''For us KERS is an extremely exciting project''

Hybrid technology in Formula One has been given the go-ahead and the development process is underway. Powered by a modified drive concept, the top category of motorsport is poised to enter a new dimension in 2009 -– and deliver significant impetus for the development of standard production vehicles in the process. From the start of next season, the Formula One regulations allow for the use of hybrid technology to increase the output and efficiency of the cars. To this end, the BMW Sauber team is working flat out on the development of its KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) brake energy regeneration system.

BMW Sauber enhances the hybrid expertise of the BMW Group
As Dr Klaus Draeger, member of the BMW AG Board of Management responsible for development, reports: "The BMW Group can transfer the knowledge gained within the BMW Sauber F1 Team directly into the development of standard production vehicles. This makes Formula One the ideal pre-development platform for innovative drive technologies. The new Formula One regulations give us the opportunity to use innovative hybrid technology under extreme conditions and in so doing to garner crucial expertise for series development as well. BMW customers stand to benefit as a result. The KERS unit designed for the BMW Sauber F1.
09 is a highly effective variant of brake energy regeneration technology, and is similar in the way it works to the ActiveHybrid technology developed for BMW standard production vehicles."

BMW Sauber develops electric KERS system
KERS enables the regeneration and storage of braking energy, which is then put on tap as an extra source of power under acceleration to complement the output of the V8 engine. The BMW Sauber F1 Team has decided to focus its efforts on an electric solution. The BMW Sauber F1.09 will be equipped with a hybrid system consisting of a combination of electric motor and generator, the requisite power electronics and an energy storage module.

The BMW Sauber F1.09 will store enough energy under braking to provide an additional 60 kW of output over around 6.5 seconds of acceleration. The complete system will weigh under 40 kg. This means that the power density of the F1 KERS technology will be considerably greater than that of the systems currently used in standard production vehicles. The newly acquired expertise will flow straight into production car development over the years to come.


"For us KERS is an extremely exciting project and a great opportunity. We are standing at the threshold between a conventional package of engine and independent transmission and an integrated drive system," explains BMW Motorsport Director Mario Theissen: "The power density of the KERS components will far exceed that of today’s hybrid vehicles. KERS will see Formula One take on a pioneering role for series production technologies going forward. F1 will give a baptism of fire to innovative concepts whose service life and reliability have not yet reached the level required for series production vehicles, and their development will be driven forward at full speed."

"At BMW we have always used the Formula One project as a technology laboratory for series production. With KERS this approach takes on a whole new dimension. Formula One will re-position itself and undergo a change of image, allowing the sport to take significant strides forward in terms of public acceptance."

The BMW Group already includes a brake energy regeneration system in a large number of its series-produced models as part of its BMW EfficientDynamics package. It is also preparing to introduce BMW ActiveHybrid technology in various model series.

© CAPSIS Internationa
User avatar
By Martin
#55543
BMW Motorsport Director Mario Theissen believes the adoption of Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems (KERS) next year will see Formula One racing assume a leading role in the advancement of hybrid technologies for everyday road cars.

From the start of next season, the Formula One regulations allow for the use of brake energy regeneration systems to increase the output and efficiency of the cars. Like the majority of their rivals, BMW Sauber are working flat out on their KERS, but Theissen feels it will be not just the F1 drivers who benefit, but also the average motorist.

“At BMW we have always used the Formula One project as a technology laboratory for series production - with KERS this approach takes on a whole new dimension,” said Theissen. “KERS will see Formula One take on a pioneering role for series production technologies going forward.

“F1 will give a baptism of fire to innovative concepts whose service life and reliability have not yet reached the level required for series production vehicles, and their development will be driven forward at full speed.”

KERS will enable the regeneration and storage of braking energy, which will then be available on tap as an extra source of power under acceleration to complement the output of a Formula One car’s V8 engine. Flexibility in the regulations will allow for either electric or mechanical solutions, with BMW Sauber opting for the former.

The 2009 BMW Sauber F1.09 will be equipped with a hybrid system consisting of a combination of electric motor and generator, the requisite power electronics and an energy storage module. In accordance with the regulations, this will store enough energy under braking to provide an additional 60 kW of output over around 6.5 seconds of acceleration.

BMW already use a brake energy regeneration system in a large number of their production cars. Although their Formula One KERS will not be dissimilar in principle, its efficiency and packaging - the complete system will weigh under 40 kg - should be in a different league.

“We are standing at the threshold between a conventional package of engine and independent transmission and an integrated drive system. The power density of the KERS components will far exceed that of today’s hybrid vehicles,” added Theissen.


What do you reckon folks? The fact that F1 is (again) developing a technology that will be on road cars eventually is great. Not sure about its purposes for F1 racing though. OK, it will improve acceleration after braking, but it will be extra weight and extra cost (not just for the unit but for the development costs which will probably go on for years). I am sure that the teams will assess its racing value, and use it, or not, as the case may be, but, in these days of cost reduction, world wide credit crunch, a need to entice at least 2 more teams into the sport (without the support of 'customer cars') I just wonder whether its the right thing to be doing now, or just another expensive gadget for a couple of tenths. What do you think? :confused:
User avatar
By bud
#55566
i think its the FIA trying to show the world that F1 is making an effort to go green and developing concepts that will trickle down to road cars. but even Kers is too little too late for the road car industry
User avatar
By scotty
#55710
My understanding of KERS was that it would store up energy that could be released though a 'boost button' akin to those on the turbo cars in the 80's - in a bid to improve overtaking.

Or have all these motorsport magazines been lying to me? :(:P
User avatar
By madbrad
#55729
I'm not picturing a button in F1. I figure it will be an automatic use of electric assistance in the acceleration right after the braking period. Some hybrid road cars do this. The GM truck has its alternator in large disc shape inside the bell housing and it provides motive power under acceleration. It does not, however, get its power from the brakes.
User avatar
By TechniqueFreak
#55739
Whether or not one agrees with it, its going to happen. I'm interested to see how it will affect things.

My understanding was there is going to be a rule restricting its use to not more than 10 seconds per lap. Some have predicted it will be used as a "push to pass" button a la in the US. But I wonder if the F1 boffins will just work out which distribution of that 10 seconds of extra power over the course of a lap will produce the optimum lap time improvement, and just pre-program the engine to use the extra power in those optimum places every time (which I would think would be whenever the car is topping out 7th gear) - i.e. it'll just be faster overall lap times equalized across the field with little peceptible difference in the racing.

Some teams will adopt better solutions than others, and so there is the potential for engine performance to become a factor differentiating the teams again, which hasn't really been the case since the engine development freeze. BMW have historically made great engines - it could therefore help them?

But I think the biggest change we will see will come not from KERS but the regulations (a) reducing downforce, (b) removing what people have called "aero furniture", (c) allowing drivers to increase the front wing angle for limited periods, and (d) most importantly, reintroducing slicks. In fact I might start a separate thread about that....
User avatar
By bud
#56864
Image

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Energy recovery became energy reception
for one BMW mechanic
Yet another incident involving the development of KERS systems for next year has occurred.

The local fire department was called to Red Bull's UK headquarters late last week when the team was testing for KERS, the electronic energy-recovery system that is allowed in Formula One from 2009.

But while smoke and fumes were the concern for Red Bull, the danger of electric shocks came to the fore on Tuesday as F1 teams began a four-day test at Jerez.

After three installation laps, test driver Christian Klien returned to the Spanish circuit's pitlane at the wheel of a modified 2007 BMW Sauber that was running an early KERS system.

A mechanic, whose job was to push the car back into the garage, touched Klien's car and was thrown to the ground with a shock.



A statement said he had to visit the medical centre but escaped with only slight injuries to his left hand and grazing on his left arm.

"Because the team is still investigating the incident, the car did not run in the afternoon," a BMW spokesman added.

It is believed the KERS car will not run at Jerez on any of the three remaining days of the test.


alot of testing ahead for functional KERS systems :yes:
#56866
A BMW Sauber mechanic has escaped with minor injuries after suffering an electric shock while the team was trying out its Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) during testing at Jerez this morning (Tuesday).

The incident occurred when test driver Christian Klien returned to the pits after an initial three-lap installation run in a modified 2007 car (F1.07C) fitted with the KERS device.

The mechanic suffered the shock when he touched the car’s sidepod, falling to the ground before being helped to his feet by his colleagues.

He was taken to the circuit medical centre for attention and was released soon afterwards with only slight injuries and grazing to his left hand and arm.

A BMW spokesman told itv.com/f1: “During testing of the KERS car at the Jerez track this morning, there was an incident involving a mechanic.

“When the car returned to the pits, he touched it and suffered an electric shock.

“He sustained slight injuries to his left hand and grazing on his left arm.

“After a brief examination at the track’s medical centre, he has returned to the test team.”

The team has suspended its testing programme for the remainder of the day while it investigates the causes of the incident.

BMW is not the first team to have encountered problems with its KERS development.

Red Bull Racing had to evacuate its factory in Milton Keynes last Wednesday after a fire scare triggered by a battery failure.

The latest incident is likely to raise further safety concerns over the device, although BMW boss Mario Theissen said at Hockenheim last Friday that his team was confident of ironing out the teething troubles.

“We are developing or working on several alternatives, especially in terms of energy storage – we do an electrical system – and we have had some issues already in development which is normal, no big ones," he said.

“We have carried out extensive work on reliability, on potential damage and on all cases which could happen.

“So that means we have done an FMEA (failure mode and effects analysis) on the entire system, especially on the storage unit, and we are doing specific tests to really figure out what can be done or what can happen and what can be done to avoid it.”

Prior to today's incident, BMW had carried out extensive dyno testing of its KERS unit and completed a successful shakedown at its private test track in Miramas, France.

Klien will be back in action in this year's F1.08 car tomorrow to continue with 2008 development work.


Link here

Now, the thing i don't get is how he got a shock given that there are earthing strips for the cars in the pitlane.

Also, do people think that the introduction of KERS could be delayed if these incidents carry on?

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