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[EwanM]

NH has underperformed all season long, always behind RK. His not making q3 today is just another nail in his coffin.
No, I'm not saying he'll get sacked mid season and replaced by FA next month. But they are going to be talking to people NOW for next season, so NH should start looking around for another ride...

I dont think nick has underperformed all season he has always been behind RK keeping him honest. RK is a great qualifier and thats why he is always ahead of heidfeld, if heidfeld out qualied kubica then heidfeld would beat him in that race.

Quali is part of the performance!
Look, in every race in which both BMW Sauber drivers finished, RK had the better of NH. Plus RK leads NH in the points. Underperformed! Why else is he under pressure, eh? Underperformed!

yes he has only underperformed in quali but thats only 1/2 the battle, in most races hes behind rk but 1 mistake and heidfeld will pounce.

I think it comes back to the very very beginning of 08.
the BMW 07 was very much unsuited to Kubica, he really couldn't get his head around it. However I feel they have geared the car more to Kubica's best ability. Nick is struggling, is he getting pushed out?

[8-ball]

I think it comes back to the very very beginning of 08.
the BMW 07 was very much unsuited to Kubica, he really couldn't get his head around it. However I feel they have geared the car more to Kubica's best ability. Nick is struggling, is he getting pushed out?

No he isn't i think he is suffering with the lack of TC. Nick brings valuable experience to the team and the best driver lineups consist of a talented rookie and an old hand who can give technical feedback. Mclaren have 2 rookies & Red Bull has 2 old guys and look what's happening to them! Ferrari have the right idea

[Red Racer]

No he isn't i think he is suffering with the lack of TC. Nick brings valuable experience to the team and the best driver lineups consist of a talented rookie and an old hand who can give technical feedback. Mclaren have 2 rookies & Red Bull has 2 old guys and look what's happening to them! Ferrari have the right idea

I've keeping looking at NH quotes and it seems that he always has problems heating the tyres, he had that problem last year aswell and now its even harder with out TC. I dont think he is suffering with out TC he just needs to get his 1st lap good for once.

[darwin dali]

I think it comes back to the very very beginning of 08.
the BMW 07 was very much unsuited to Kubica, he really couldn't get his head around it. However I feel they have geared the car more to Kubica's best ability. Nick is struggling, is he getting pushed out?

No he isn't i think he is suffering with the lack of TC. Nick brings valuable experience to the team and the best driver lineups consist of a talented rookie and an old hand who can give technical feedback. Mclaren have 2 rookies & Red Bull has 2 old guys and look what's happening to them! Ferrari have the right idea

Who's the old hand and who's the rookie at Ferrari?

[f1ea]

No he isn't i think he is suffering with the lack of TC. Nick brings valuable experience to the team and the best driver lineups consist of a talented rookie and an old hand who can give technical feedback. Mclaren have 2 rookies & Red Bull has 2 old guys and look what's happening to them! Ferrari have the right idea

So far I have never seen Heidfeld spin out nor have trouble keeping up his tyres... if anything I think without TC it would actually be easier to warm up your tyres, but then harder to take care of them in long runs...
Nick is struggling because he hasn't been able to adapt to the car he's in. And as i said earlier... this is BMW-Sauber's best car yet, so if Nick thinks they will change it for him, then he'd better start looking for another ride soon. And I think this is exactly the message Thiessen sent him in an interview I read today...

Ferari have 2 veterans... maybe Middle-aged, considering we have Rubens, DC, Fisichella etc...

What a team needs to win consistently is 2 drivers who can develop the car with the team and who are able to adapt their driving style to the conditions of the track as well as to the car's limitations at each track... But most importantly to be able to discern whether to be lighting fast and take the necessary risks or to drive with the head, when needed. This doesn't necesarilly put it all down on "veteranity"...

[darwin dali]

Well, 8-Ball implied: 'the best driver lineups consist of a talented rookie and an old hand' and then cited Ferrari as doing the right thing. That's why I was wondering who the rookie would be in their case

[Red Racer]

After that race i think heidfeld isnt in trouble. He had an awsome start but alonso on the full wets lost his temper and then he was screwed to get those punctures but im still not convinced he is as slow as everyone else thinks.

[f1ea]

Well, 8-Ball implied: 'the best driver lineups consist of a talented rookie and an old hand' and then cited Ferrari as doing the right thing. That's why I was wondering who the rookie would be in their case

Oh yeah, I understood and agree on what your question meant but I didn't reply to answer your question in particular, I guess my reply was more towards the general subject of Nick's struggles and on 8-Ball's opinion that a combination of a Veteran + Rookie at Ferrari makes them a winning team...

[juggles]

Heidfeld's placings after the first 6 races are:

Australia - 2nd
Malaysia - 6th
Bahrain - 4th
Spain - 9th
Turkey - 5th
Monaco - 14th

Apart from Spain and Monaco those are quite strong placings, especially getting a podium in Melbourne. If not for the electric form of Kubica, we would not be having this discussion. He's still a good driver, and shouldn't be written off because of two bad results. Don't forget that his worst result so far this season came yesterday in Monte Carlo, and was it his fault that Alonso side swiped him, which affected his car for the rest of the race? I can guarantee he wouldn't have come so low down the order if he'd been driving in Kubica's undamaged car. I can't remember if anything compromised his race in Spain, but if not, then everyone has an off day. Lewis came 13th in Bahrain didn't he? And he's just won Monaco. Kubica is the better driver of the two BMWs, but not by much

[Denthúl]

I agree with Juggles. Both of Nick's non-scoring finishes have been due to matters completely out of his hand. In Spain, he was on for a fifth or sixth place finish (or thereabouts) until he was forced to pit when the pit lane was closed, resulting in him having to serve a stop-and-go penalty and thus losing his position. Yesterday in Monaco, he was hit by Alonso and had to drive around with damage after an additional pit stop. Despite qualifying low on the grid, he was still on for a points finish before that happened.

[8-ball]

Well, 8-Ball implied: 'the best driver lineups consist of a talented rookie and an old hand' and then cited Ferrari as doing the right thing. That's why I was wondering who the rookie would be in their case

My mistake i forgot that Massa drove for Sauber. I still think that the best teams consist of a relative rookie & an experienced driver. Compared to kimi, Massa is a rookie considering this is the first time he is in a top team.

[Red Racer]

Heidfeld's placings after the first 6 races are:

Australia - 2nd
Malaysia - 6th
Bahrain - 4th
Spain - 9th
Turkey - 5th
Monaco - 14th

Apart from Spain and Monaco those are quite strong placings, especially getting a podium in Melbourne. If not for the electric form of Kubica, we would not be having this discussion. He's still a good driver, and shouldn't be written off because of two bad results. Don't forget that his worst result so far this season came yesterday in Monte Carlo, and was it his fault that Alonso side swiped him, which affected his car for the rest of the race? I can guarantee he wouldn't have come so low down the order if he'd been driving in Kubica's undamaged car. I can't remember if anything compromised his race in Spain, but if not, then everyone has an off day. Lewis came 13th in Bahrain didn't he? And he's just won Monaco. Kubica is the better driver of the two BMWs, but not by much

Totally agree. and he always has such good start he averages like 3 in the 1st corner and then stays consistint. If he just worked out his tyre warming problems i think he will push Kubica even more.

[racer_X]

Button seems to do fine with a beard, so if anything Heidfeld will probably do worse without the beard!

sure, if you want to call those patchy fuzz gardens "beards".

i agree with some of you - Heidfeld will be outta here by the end of the year. the car "not suiting him" is rubbish.

[darwin dali]

NH consistently outperformed by his teammate RK in a car that BMW-Sauber considers capable of snatching a win in some of the races this year will no doubt raise eyebrows in Hinwil and Munich. He's under pressure to perform, I'd say by Valencia - this is a brand new track, so the playing field for the two drivers will be level - a good comparison between them.
If NH can't best RK in Valencia, then even his reputation for setup and development skills might be in jeopardy, the one thing he might have in favor compared to RK (and other drivers).