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[Denthúl]

By taking over an experienced team, you have the foundation for a strong future, because the team knows what they are doing. By forming a new team from people who have never worked in Formula 1 before you have to start from scratch and learn what you are doing. Thus, you can see why BMW are being so successful whilst Toyota are not.

Also remember that Honda are not a from-scratch team

[AKR]

Sauber was more of a middle running team whereas Williams and Benetton(Now Renault) were championship winning teams and/or at least race winning/contention teams. BMW still needs to bring Sauber up to a winning team which Sauber until now has never experienced in F1. I believe they are getting there.

[AKR]

Yes I know, Honda was the BAR team. But the BAR team was relatively young as well only racing a few seasons as BAR before Honda bought them out, so in a way a new from scratch team.

[bud]

Actually Senna brought Honda with him from LOTUS!!! And being an Engine supplier is a whole different ball game to actually engineering a chassis!

AKR F you!! always dragging McLaren down in every thread!

[AKR]

Bud wrote : AKR F you!! always dragging McLaren down in every thread!

Quello non il modo di parlare con una donna! Imparati un poco di galateo con le donne per favore!

[f1ea]

This is a nice post topic

Like some people have said, so far Jap teams are just big corporations putting lots money into a bussiness and then hoping to race, compete or show off. The antithesis being Renault and Williams which are racers at heart and blood, and from this standpoint they work out ways to find the cash to be competitive.

This is why Williams-Toyota does better than Toyota, and the 06 Honda beat its 07 sister...

[madbrad]

Toyota F1 = Toronto Maple Leafs
They sell enough seats so they don't have any need to win.

[Denthúl]

This is a nice post topic

Like some people have said, so far Jap teams are just big corporations putting lots money into a bussiness and then hoping to race, compete or show off. The antithesis being Renault and Williams which are racers at heart and blood, and from this standpoint they work out ways to find the cash to be competitive.

This is why Williams-Toyota does better than Toyota, and the 06 Honda beat its 07 sister...

Actually, the '06 Honda beat the '07 Honda because they made some mega screw-ups with their aerodynamic development. I think Renault aren't true racers in the same sense as Williams, but they aren't corporate either. They're a good, respectable balance of qualities. Which, in a sport where it's hard to get by without manufacturer-backing (see Jordan and Minardi, for example) or the backing of a huge company, such as Red Bull or Kingfisher, is probably the way to go. It's only because of their huge success that Williams can continue without being a manufacturer/big company-owned team. And they do an excellent job of it

[f1ea]

Actually, the '06 Honda beat the '07 Honda because they made some mega screw-ups with their aerodynamic development.

And how did this happen?
Maybe because Honda spent their energy coming up with ideas to Show-off.
Enter the Earth car! it runs like crap.. but everyone talks about it. They were probably racing for a Nobel prize rather than a race win.....

[Denthúl]

Or maybe they just made a mistake? Like Renault did with their aero development?

[McLaren Fan]

Whatever McLaren Fan, your convinced you know more than everyone about the sport.

No, I'm not.

You are also convinced I know nothing (a nice insult to me but I should congratulate you as you have done well to upset me if that was indeed your intention).

Only half a third right. You know something of the sport, but are biased, and my intention has never been to upset you, but defend McLaren form your false charges.

Somehow I have trouble finding the documentation on where I read this.

Probably because it does not exist, I should imagine.

Either way I never said McLaren commited a crime for taking the Honda engines of Williams.

No, you said they were immoral, and that's as bad.

Quello non il modo di parlare con una donna! Imparati un poco di galateo con le donne per favore!

This is an English forum, so use English, you clown. Do you see me writing in French just for the hell of it?!

Or maybe they just made a mistake? Like Renault did with their aero development?

They said the problem was with their wind tunnel. Basically they went half way through the season not knowing it was not calibrated correctly, so all their findings were worthless!

[AKR]

Fair enough McLaren Fan, your point has been taken. You do a great job in defending McLaren. A McLaren warrior you truly are.

Regarding this topic it is clear that the Japanese teams are not doing well because as a full team of their own (Therefore not counting Honda powered Williams' and McLarens) they lack experience. I guess it will change in time. Well I can see Honda changing anyway and moving up.

One last comment to McLaren Fan. Please so not call me a clown for using my first language. People are not clowns because they apeak another language other than English. My comment was made in Italian as I was appauled how Bud told me to F off. Remember I am a woman. What I said was "Quello non è il modo di parlare con una donna! Imparati un poco di galateo con le donne per favore!", which means "That is not the way to speak to a woman. Learn some etiquette with women please!" Personally I am not accustomed in having men tell me the F word but anyway I can see where he is coming from. Another true McLaren Warrior Bud is, ready to defend McLaren at all cost.

[Denthúl]

You have to be careful when you speak another language, particularly when everyone else is speaking English. Given the situation, that could well have been an insult, and possibly taken as such by those who can't understand what you are saying. I know you weren't saying anything insulting, but for those who don't know what you're saying, it could be anything

[7UpJordan]

Manufacturers always do best when they're providing engines to privateer teams (with exception to Ferrari and in some cases BMW and Renault). This is why Williams are doing so much better using Toyota's engines than the works team itself, and Renault ought to watch their backs next year if Red Bull do better than them.

Toyota F1 = Toronto Maple Leafs

I call them Toy-slow-ta.

[McLaren Fan]

Fair enough McLaren Fan, your point has been taken. You do a great job in defending McLaren. A McLaren warrior you truly are.

Patronising in the extreme.

One last comment to McLaren Fan. Please so not call me a clown for using my first language. People are not clowns because they apeak another language other than English.

Is this an English forum or isn't it? Would everybody be happy be happy on here if posted in French or Latin? No, they wouldn't. Why? Because it's not the language of the forum and they may not be able to understand what is being said. Speak your native tongue by all means - on fora which use it.

Remember I am a woman. What I said was "Quello non è il modo di parlare con una donna! Imparati un poco di galateo con le donne per favore!", which means "That is not the way to speak to a woman. Learn some etiquette with women please!" Personally I am not accustomed in having men tell me the F word but anyway I can see where he is coming from.

Once again you're trying to turn the tables on me, unfairly. How many times do you need reminding that you are offensive one on here. I know how to treat a lady, but when some girl comes on to a forum shouting the odds, being ignorant to others views and just generally looking to cause annoyance, I will happily put them back in their place.

Another true McLaren Warrior Bud is, ready to defend McLaren at all cost.

Another anti-McLaren remark. What a surprise. Now the team we support is linked to our personalities.

It looks as though another topic has been spoiled by you. I have to apologise to the proper users of the forum slightly for keeping this "sub"-discussion going, but I'm not going to let AKR trash-talk and get away with it.