FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

Discuss the sport you love with other motorsport fans

Formula One related discussion.
#435318
ah ok - nah, it sucks for them and for us. On the other hand, why were those two circuits in trouble? Where were all the German fans in the past 5 years? Not at the races, they weren't :banghead:
#435319
Yeah, I'd have thought Vettel wouldve been a big draw for them and maybe Rosberg (wherever he says he comes from) and Merc last year. Maybe they're still missing the Schumacher era.
#435338
The problem is no one fee being paid for a race, some pay large fees and some like Monza and Silverstone pay nothing. So possibly Hockenheim decide not to hold the race because paying the fees and advertising and selling tickets it would not payback fees paid to formula 1. Previous year they held it there but they had more notice to sell the required tickets in time and make a profit now with Nubering pulling out late no time for Hockenheim to sell enough tickets and cover the costs and make a profit.
#435340
The problem is no one fee being paid for a race, some pay large fees and some like Monza and Silverstone pay nothing. So possibly Hockenheim decide not to hold the race because paying the fees and advertising and selling tickets it would not payback fees paid to formula 1. Previous year they held it there but they had more notice to sell the required tickets in time and make a profit now with Nubering pulling out late no time for Hockenheim to sell enough tickets and cover the costs and make a profit.


Agree, it's a large risk if you've no time to sell the tickets.
#435357
F1 has become a business first and sport second, it's more about making profit for FOM than it is about the sport and when money is more important than the sport, the sport suffers and this is what we are seeing in F1 these days. I understand how business works and it would be stupid to make a loss intentionally, that said, we have already lost so many great race venues from F1 in favour of fly away tilkedromes and this is because of money, far east and middle east countries are willing to pay the big $$$ to host races while traditional circuits cant afford it!
#435405
I agree with above. Losing the German GP is a huge loss, we were disappointed that the 2nd US GP couldn't get off the ground. In Canada the federal and provincial gov'ts kick in millions to keep it.
Sagi, have you attended the Montreal GP or Toronto Indy?
#435411
...Sagi, have you attended the Montreal GP or Toronto Indy?

Not yet; but, both are on my bucket list! It seems I'm jinxed where both are concerned,
as the weekends they are run are not good times to be taking off from work.

Mind you, I was at the inaugural race in Valencia! Great times!! :thumbup:
#435475
The Independent:

Governments must start underwriting the costs of staging grands prix to stop the drift of Formula One races from Europe to the Far East and Arabian Gulf.

So warns Patrick Allen, recently installed managing director of Silverstone, the venue of the British Grand Prix.

Circuits across Europe are under threat of losing their grands prix. The cancellation of the German Grand Prix means there are now just six in western Europe and the contracts for two circuits – Italy and Spain – are up for renewal in the next two years. The Italian GP at Monza is not expected to survive. Ten years ago, Europe staged 11 of the 19 races.

Allen, appointed to his role in January, said that unless European governments start underwriting some of the costs of staging races and circuits start upping their game in terms of what they offer spectators, the sport will continue to move east. Azerbaijan will stage its first grand prix next year and Qatar has bid to stage a race in 2016.

“It is difficult to sustain or make money from a grand prix unless you have some external support, whether that is from a government or a rich Arab sheikh,” said Allen. “We are seeing an increase in circuits that enjoy that kind of patronage.

“In the absence of that – and Silverstone is not supported in any way by patronage – we have to look at ways in which we can keep the show going. My view is that we have to make Silverstone a destination venue, properly cost the British Grand Prix and get more people attending. It may be that we will have to diversify into corporate or food events or music because the core concept of delivering a Rolling Stones concert is not that different from delivering a grand prix.

Lewis Hamilton sprays the champagne after his victory at Silverstone last year Lewis Hamilton sprays the champagne after his victory at Silverstone last year (AP)
“I would welcome the government getting involved in supporting us and I think they should invest in a venue that has a sound business plan behind it. They should be supporting a venue like Silverstone that contributes £80m to the local economy in Northamptonshire.

“I am not going to sit here whining and say we can’t go on without government support because we are running Silverstone properly and making a profit. But it is one of the six biggest sporting events in the United Kingdom and it is important to keep it.

“If staging grands prix are all about the almighty dollar rather than the fans, then it will go to those countries that put up the cash to support them. We have seen the circuit expand to Russia and Bahrain, while Qatar will probably become involved. These are nations that put cash up front.”

Allen is speaking from a position of strength. Silverstone, a circuit that Formula One’s ringmaster, Bernie Ecclestone, had long wanted to remove from the World Championship, signed a 17-year-deal in 2009, negotiated via the track’s owners, the British Racing Drivers’ Club. However, that contract has an escalator clause, with the fee Silverstone pays Ecclestone’s Formula One management increasing each year.

The fees proved too much for the famed Nürburgring, which was to have staged the German GP in July. An attempt to move the race to Hockenheim fell through despite an offer of financial support from Mercedes.

“I wasn’t surprised the German Grand Prix was cancelled,” said Allen. “The Nürburgring had been in difficulties and, if the grand prix forms the lion’s share of your revenues, then you are going to be vulnerable. What I want to do at Silverstone is to introduce the audience to other events because the mistake some circuits have made has been to concentrate on the grand prix to the exclusion of everything else.”
:(
#435476
The Independent:

The first roar of a Formula One engine is heard each year along the three miles of track that make up the Circuit de Catalunya near Barcelona as the cars are tested for the coming season.

Soon you may struggle to hear anything. One by one, the whine of the Mercedes W05 turbine that powers so many of the Formula One teams will disappear from the European arenas.

The greatest season in the history of the sport, 1976, the one that finished in the driving rain at the Mount Fuji Speedway Circuit with Britain’s James Hunt as the improbable champion of the world, was essentially a European affair.

There were a few grands prix in the Americas and another in South Africa a few months before the Soweto Uprising, but the great race of 1976 was fought out in Europe; at Zolder and Zandvoort, at Anderstorp and Brands Hatch and the Paul Ricard track near Marseille. It was virtually decided at the Nürburgring, where Niki Lauda’s Ferrari exploded into flames.

None of these arenas will stage a grand prix this year and in all probability they never will again. Not even the intervention of Mercedes could save the 2015 German Grand Prix, although Bernie Ecclestone, who runs the sport through Formula One Management, did not seem particularly sorry to see it go.

“A lousy public” was how he described the crowds of 95,000 that over three days last year watched a German car driven by a German, Nico Rosberg, win the German GP a few days after Germany had brought the World Cup back from Brazil. Lauda was shocked. “Ecclestone is just sabre-rattling,” he said. “He will not go through with the threat.” But he did.

Not even the Autodromo Nazionale in Monza, at the sport’s very heart, is safe. The circuit has been described as a “financial disaster” by Ecclestone. Unless Monza can gain exemption from a £15m tax bill, the Italian GP will go the same way as Germany.

The money to stage the races lies in the Far and Middle East; in Shanghai, Bahrain and Abu Dhabi, where they pay Formula One Management higher than average fees, underwritten by governments. Next year the drivers will race at night through the streets of the Azerbaijan capital, Baku, a city where oil is so prevalent that you can smell petrol in the air. Qatar would also like a grand prix and what Qatar wants, Qatar usually gets.

In May the Circuit de Catalunya will celebrate its 25th anniversary. However, the question is how many more there will be. Its contract is up next year.

The Circuit de Catalunya, home of the Spanish GP The Circuit de Catalunya, home of the Spanish GP (Getty)
Unlike Silverstone, which does not control the advertising or most of the corporate hospitality for the British GP, the Spanish GP does have corporate boxes to sell. The best are those that lie directly above the pit lane, called pisos. They can accommodate 60 people, the food and drink is some of the best Catalonia has to offer and Santander will take three. They cost £110,000 each. They have 37 to sell. Like Silverstone, they have no control over the trackside advertising, despite paying FOM around £15m to stage the race.

This year will be Silverstone’s first grand prix under the new management team headed by managing director Patrick Allen, who took over in January. It should be an easy sell. Lewis Hamilton will be returning as world champion. Last season, 330,000 converged on this corner of Northamptonshire over the four days and, with Hamilton back on top, there will be bigger crowds in July.

Given how much of Silverstone’s revenue depends on ticket sales, the temptation must be to ramp up the prices. Race-day admission costs between £155 and £340. The Circuit de Catalunya is rather cheaper at between £115 and £165 – and you get parking and a portion of paella for that. Allen sees no reason why Silverstone could not issue an admission ticket for £99.

“With Hamilton coming as world champion, we could charge what we like,” he said. “But then you would alienate half your audience. Year one would be fine but in year two you’d be in trouble and in year three Silverstone would be in administration.”

Fans of Lewis Hamilton watch their hero on his way to victory at the British Grand Prix at Silverstone last year Fans of Lewis Hamilton watch their hero on his way to victory at the British Grand Prix at Silverstone last year (Getty)
The Spanish GP, which is the first on the European circuit to stage a grand prix this year, has two other advantages as it fights to survive. One is that it is 80 per cent owned and underwritten by the government of Catalonia.

In contrast, when recent attempts were made to resurrect the French GP, last raced in 2008, the Magny-Cours circuit pleaded in vain for government aid. President François Hollande, who is said to detest the sport, replied curtly that it was inconceivable a grand prix should be funded in the age of climate change. France staged the first grand prix of all in 1906. It will probably never stage another.

The other advantage is where it is. You could walk the bleached medieval walls of Girona or stroll through the cypresses of the Santa Clotilde Gardens as they meet the Costa Brava at Lloret de Mar and be at the racetrack in a little over an hour. The track has been renamed the Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya just to emphasise its location.

Around half the audience at the Spanish GP will be foreign. However, it has always attracted a sizeable Russian audience and, with the slump in the value of the rouble and trade sanctions, that formerly lucrative slice of the market is disappearing.

At the Santa Marta in Lloret, the antithesis of a typical Costa Brava hotel, all polished wood, old furniture, perfect daiquiris in the cocktail lounge, they noticed a 40 per cent drop in Russian tourists last year and expect another 40 per cent fall this year.

The balance of Formula One has shifted further east, where there are far fewer fans but much more money, largely supplied by governments that seldom feel the need to be elected.

But even here the sands are shifting. This Sunday, Malaysia will stage its 17th grand prix at the Sepang Circuit but its contract with Ecclestone ends when the race is over. It is hoped that Mercedes, sponsored by Malaysia’s biggest company, Petronas, will step in. But as events in Germany proved, Mercedes could not even save its own grand prix.
:(:(
#435479
WoW!! :yikes:

Is the answer to have more team involvement in the running of F1?

Why should a board whose only interest is the ridiculously huge profits be
the only one at the table when these momentous decisions are made??

Will things be any different if and when Ecclestone retires?
#435481
WoW!! :yikes:

Is the answer to have more team involvement in the running of F1?

Why should a board whose only interest is the ridiculously huge profits be
the only one at the table when these momentous decisions are made??

Will things be any different if and when Ecclestone retires?

Can't wait for the old goose to croak :banghead:
#435482
Paddock Talk:

Hockenheim and Bernie Ecclestone on Wednesday denied responsibility for the demise of the historic German grand prix.

The Nurburgring was scheduled to host this year's July 19 race, but confusion regarding the ownership of the fabled track moved Ecclestone to observe in January: "It can't be Nurburgring because there's nobody there".

Talks, then, kicked off with Hockenheim about stepping in at short notice, even though the circuit is only contractually obliged every other year.

"Someone had to be willing to bear the financial risk," Hockenheim chief Georg Seiler was quoted on Wednesday by Germany's Sport Bild.

"As a medium-sized company, we could not. The decision as to the grand prix taking place this year was not our responsibility," Seiler insisted.

In the end, Hockenheim offered the use of the track and would have allowed Ecclestone, F1's chief executive, to collect the ticket revenue.

Mercedes-Benz even stepped in, reportedly offering to cover half of any financial loss and even promote its home race.

Seiler said: "We offered ourselves as the replacement (for the Nurburgring), but obviously not with any financial risk to ourselves. As a company we cannot be gambling."

He and Ecclestone, however, could not agree.

"We do not sell tickets," Ecclestone, 84, was quoted by Sport Bild. "The organiser must ensure that it has enough money."

Former German F1 driver Heinz-Harald Frentzen thinks the main problem is the declining interest in the sport, due to the deterioration of the 'show'.

"The cars are now much easier to drive than before," he said, "and the viewers can see that as well.

"Today, even a skateboarder with a helmet camera can give you more exciting images that some formula one races," added Frentzen.

:banghead::banghead:

See our F1 related articles too!