FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[sagi58]

You fail to recognize that there were THIRTY-SIX indicators, ONLY one of which were based on a sentiment index.
I attempted to give you information regarding it. Considering how much information you seem to have at your
fingertips, I assumed you'd be able to google any further information you desired.

The sentiment index is scientific in that it is verifiable, since those specific respondents could be questioned about
their choices or asked for clarification, whereas with online "surveys" there is no way of knowing how many times
one person may have completed the questions.

[bud]

I think this is all just a measure of hoo har.

[spankyham]

Great to read the various posts. I think there have been some good points raised regarding the value of this report by the British company Brand Finance. The truth is Ferrari isn't Apple or Samsung and probably never will be.

What I like about the input metrics for this award is that it provides an alternate view of global brands. Instead of a pure monetary measure, it looks at financials, marketing, investment, CEO performance, trademarks, employee satisfaction, sentiments etc. on the brand to arrive at an overall score.

[What's Burning?]

Hoo Har was number thrity six in the list of powerful brands.

[spankyham]

Hoo Har was number thrity six in the list of powerful brands.

I believe the Forumula1 brand scored well on the Hoo-Har-o-meter.

[1Lemon]

But you've also got to look at regional performance. Mclaren and Aston Martin are seen as far cooler and more desirable in China and the far east than Ferrari (based on percentile sale figures, if anyone wants I'll see if I can dig up the figures I found a while back, possibly because China seems to find British brands 'cooler' for some reason. Yes no doubt globally Ferrari has more pull than either of those two examples but it really depends where you are in the world and what cultural shifts exist. F1 is probably the world's most popular motor sports but Americans en masse don't seem to want to be interested.

[spankyham]

But you've also got to look at regional performance. Mclaren and Aston Martin are seen as far cooler and more desirable in China and the far east than Ferrari (based on percentile sale figures, if anyone wants I'll see if I can dig up the figures I found a while back, possibly because China seems to find British brands 'cooler' for some reason. Yes no doubt globally Ferrari has more pull than either of those two examples but it really depends where you are in the world and what cultural shifts exist. F1 is probably the world's most popular motor sports but Americans en masse don't seem to want to be interested.

I'd enjoy learning what AM and McLaren sales are in China, thanks for that 1Lemon, looking forward to reading that post

*** edit - I know Ferrari limit sales to less than 7000 units globally per year, I will see if I can find a breakdown of those to go with yours ***

[racechick]

You can buy very cheap Ferrari's in Italy because the Italians are selling them because they're getting massively taxed on them. I might pop over to Italy in the summer and take a look no good going over in the winter to look, I can't haul a Ferrari back over in my back pack on skis.
It is nice in summer watching the Ferrari's and Porsche's coming over the col. A sensual overload!

[CookinFlat6]

It's often said that when Ferrari are peaking in car sales they have their worse F1 spells. And when the road cars are not popular the F1 team thrives

Not sure why the tifosi are do excited about how well the brand is doing before the start of a new season

In case anyone gets sensitive about facts being pointed out go look it up

[spankyham]

It's often said that when Ferrari are peaking in car sales they have their worse F1 spells. And when the road cars are not popular the F1 team thrives

I'm calling you out on this one Cookin.

My quick check for the last 10 years Ferrari won a championship (that goes back to '99):-
1) If you look at the year after their championship win their cars sales went up 8 times and down 2
2) If you look at the year they won their championship their cars sales went up 9 times and down once.

[What's Burning?]

I bet there's much more of a correlation to global economic trends than there is to F1 championships.

[CookinFlat6]

It's often said that when Ferrari are peaking in car sales they have their worse F1 spells. And when the road cars are not popular the F1 team thrives

I'm calling you out on this one Cookin.

My quick check for the last 10 years Ferrari won a championship (that goes back to '99):-
1) If you look at the year after their championship win their cars sales went up 8 times and down 2
2) If you look at the year they won their championship their cars sales went up 9 times and down once.

I think you are looking at the wrong metric. Take the 5 year period when they won everything and the winless period before and after that
Superimpose a chart of car sales on one of championship success and a different picture emerges.
I will dig something up later

[spankyham]

It's often said that when Ferrari are peaking in car sales they have their worse F1 spells. And when the road cars are not popular the F1 team thrives

I'm calling you out on this one Cookin.

My quick check for the last 10 years Ferrari won a championship (that goes back to '99):-
1) If you look at the year after their championship win their cars sales went up 8 times and down 2
2) If you look at the year they won their championship their cars sales went up 9 times and down once.

I think you are looking at the wrong metric. Take the 5 year period when they won everything and the winless period before and after that
Superimpose a chart of car sales on one of championship success and a different picture emerges.
I will dig something up later

Hmmm.

I've checked the last 15 years. 12 have shown growth. Last year is one of the 3 where the numbers where held because the company had declared at the start of the year they were limiting sales volume deliberately to increase exclusivity and value.

Looking forward to seeing what you come back with.

[CookinFlat6]

Ok going back to 1954 the following report makes a forensic study of the state of the road car business and the periods of F1 success. Remember what was said was that when Ferrari are doing very well in sales and in the corporate side, F1 performance suffers subsequently.
You pointed to the years after ontrack success as sales increasing - different metric

Some extracts for those unwilling to read through the whole thing analyse and understand the links between road car success and on track non success. Just look at the dates and work out the championship positions

In the 1950s, Ferrari was a force to be
reckoned with, winning the Constructors’ Championships in 1952, 1953 and 1956
with drivers such as Alberto Ascari and Juan-Manuel Fangio. Ferrari also took
championships in 1961 and 1964. But after these triumphs, it would take another
11 years for Ferrari to regain their form on the racetrack.

So from 64 - 75 - This was the period of the Ferrari road car revival with Fiat - no success on track

But in 1968, Ferrari agreed to sell
the production car business to Fiat for US$ 11 million in order to provide
additional financing to the team. Ferrari himself retained control of the racing
team and used the money to revive the team.

Then on track success 74 - 79, car company again under pressure

In 1974, 26 year-old Luca
Montezemolo found himself at Enzo Ferrari’s side as head of the racing
department. This combination led to Ferrari’s “Golden Years,” winning Drivers’
and Constructors’ titles with Niki Lauda in 1975 and 1977 and with Jody
Scheckter in 1979. But this was followed by a disastrous 1980 season, in which
the team finished 10th in the Constructors’ Championship with only 8 points for
the season.

The 80s - Won in 82, 82, 2nd a few times

The 1980’s were marred by political infighting at Ferrari, which
seriously limited the team’s success. This came to a head in 1988 when Enzo
ousted his son Piero Ferrari from his management position and gave the
management of the racing team to a Fiat man, Pier Giorgio C

The 90s - Fiat increased ownership to 90%, sales went up but racing team won nothing till MS revival in 99

When Austrian driver Gerhard Berger arrived at Ferrari in
1993, he said: "Stand outside the Ferrari factory and you wonder why Ferrari
doesn't win every race. Stand inside it and you wonder how they manage to win
any.”

Post MS/Todt era - Big increase in road car sales, little ontrack success

The F1 team has also served as the dynamic core of Ferrari, designed to help
revitalize the road car business. Since the early 1990s when Ferrari was struggling
to break even, production technology, design philosophy, and manufacturing
processes were all changed in order to enhance Ferrari’s position in the luxury
sports car market. These changes have resulted in dramatic increases in sales and
profitability (Exhibit 6).

[Jabberwocky]

As WB pointed out, how does Ferrari's growth compare using similar car brand's as a datum?

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