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[mnmracer]

If you consider that Schumi cheated in '94, then you also must acknowledge that other teams cheated and got away with it or people did not consider "major" enough.

I'm not meaning the rule bending, I'm meaning the deliberate turning in on Damon when he was passing him. He tried it again against Villeneuve and that time got a mild reprimand, but in that effort he damaged his own car instead of Villeneuves with Damon he took his championship.

Schumacher deserved the 94 championship - he scored more points in 12 races than Hill did in 16.

What Schumacher did in 94 was no worse than what Senna and Prost did in 89/90 - yet those 2 never get accused of "Cheating" to win their championships in those years!

Senna had the previous championship taken away from him by Balestre and given to Prost, he wasn't going to sit by and lat another one be taken, he said exactly what he'd do if they put pole on the wrong side of the trak..and he did it.
Not a good tactic I grant you, but not the same in my book.

Not the same doesn't mean (significantly) not as bad.

[racechick]

If you consider that Schumi cheated in '94, then you also must acknowledge that other teams cheated and got away with it or people did not consider "major" enough.

I'm not meaning the rule bending, I'm meaning the deliberate turning in on Damon when he was passing him. He tried it again against Villeneuve and that time got a mild reprimand, but in that effort he damaged his own car instead of Villeneuves with Damon he took his championship.

Schumacher deserved the 94 championship - he scored more points in 12 races than Hill did in 16.

What Schumacher did in 94 was no worse than what Senna and Prost did in 89/90 - yet those 2 never get accused of "Cheating" to win their championships in those years!

Senna had the previous championship taken away from him by Balestre and given to Prost, he wasn't going to sit by and lat another one be taken, he said exactly what he'd do if they put pole on the wrong side of the trak..and he did it.
Not a good tactic I grant you, but not the same in my book.

Not the same doesn't mean (significantly) not as bad.

Possibly. I guess it all depends like so many things on where your loyalties lie and what you appreciate in F1. I was a hardened Damon fan, so there's no way I'm going to see this the same as a Schumacher/Ferrari fan.

[Zekenwolf]

Schuey owned Hill 2 years running in an inferior car then Hill only won once the only competition was his team mate, who would have easily beaten him if it wasn't for team orders. It's little wonder that he was pointed in the direction of the dole que!

Schuey only got 94 by cheating. And yes many of he others by team orders as you say.

He didn't cheat.

It's always going to be about perspective, isn't it?

Yes. Perhaps 'cheat' is too harsh but unsporting certainly. But Schumacher's shenanigans were not new; only that by 1994 both the officialdom and the spectators were less tolerant of such infringements.

If you look at some detail at the antics of some of the most beloved and/or revered F1 personalities (the so called "Gentlemen") of the past, the Vettels, Alonsos and Hamiltons of today come across as almost saints.

[Ferrari man 009]

If you consider that Schumi cheated in '94, then you also must acknowledge that other teams cheated and got away with it or people did not consider "major" enough.

I'm not meaning the rule bending, I'm meaning the deliberate turning in on Damon when he was passing him. He tried it again against Villeneuve and that time got a mild reprimand, but in that effort he damaged his own car instead of Villeneuves with Damon he took his championship.

Schumacher deserved the 94 championship - he scored more points in 12 races than Hill did in 16.

What Schumacher did in 94 was no worse than what Senna and Prost did in 89/90 - yet those 2 never get accused of "Cheating" to win their championships in those years!

Senna had the previous championship taken away from him by Balestre and given to Prost, he wasn't going to sit by and lat another one be taken, he said exactly what he'd do if they put pole on the wrong side of the trak..and he did it.
Not a good tactic I grant you, but not the same in my book.

I see what you mean, but maybe Schumacher thought he was having the championship taken away from him because of the 2 race ban that he thought was harsh, and also the harsh DQ in Spa when it was accident damage (spin onto the kerb caused the plank to wear more than the legal limit iirc) that caused the plank to wear, the same reasons that the stewards allow as "mitigating factors" these days

[andrew]

If you consider that Schumi cheated in '94, then you also must acknowledge that other teams cheated and got away with it or people did not consider "major" enough.

I'm not meaning the rule bending, I'm meaning the deliberate turning in on Damon when he was passing him. He tried it again against Villeneuve and that time got a mild reprimand, but in that effort he damaged his own car instead of Villeneuves with Damon he took his championship.

What deliberate running into Hill? How can someone run into someone else who is behind them? Fact is Schumacher didn't see Hill and Hil has since admitted he made a desperate lunge after seeing Schumacher recovering to the track.

Yes. Perhaps 'cheat' is too harsh but unsporting certainly. But Schumacher's shenanigans were not new; only that by 1994 both the officialdom and the spectators were less tolerant of such infringements.

If you look at some detail at the antics of some of the most beloved and/or revered F1 personalities (the so called "Gentlemen") of the past, the Vettels, Alonsos and Hamiltons of today come across as almost saints.

Very true. F1 has become far too sanitised and namby-pamby. Senna is held up as some sort of F1 God yet he was one of the dirtiest drivers ever! I recall Brundle saying that you'd let him through because it was either that or get run off the track.

[sagi58]

If you consider that Schumi cheated in '94, then you also must acknowledge that other teams cheated and got away with it or people did not consider "major" enough.

I'm not meaning the rule bending, I'm meaning the deliberate turning in on Damon when he was passing him. He tried it again against Villeneuve and that time got a mild reprimand, but in that effort he damaged his own car instead of Villeneuves with Damon he took his championship.

Schumacher deserved the 94 championship - he scored more points in 12 races than Hill did in 16.

What Schumacher did in 94 was no worse than what Senna and Prost did in 89/90 - yet those 2 never get accused of "Cheating" to win their championships in those years!

Possibly because they didn't drive for Ferrari? !!

[zurich_allan]

Very briefly on the Schumacher / Hill Adelaide incident. Schumacher definitely did turn in on Damon deliberately. A car returning to the track after going off (and having an accident), has a responsibility to make sure it does so safely, Schumi failed to do this - Hill was on the apex of the corner when Schumacher turned in on him, there were two turn-in phases and there is absolutely no doubt it was deliberate. And this if from a Schumacher fan, who was up at 4am that day to watch the race. Was still absolutely delighted with the Mansell, Berger, Brundle podium that day though!!

Back to the main point, Damon Hill does not get the respect he deserves for what he achieved in F1. 1992 aside (it doesn't really count), could any of you really imagine someone with no real single seater racing background, aged 32 'having a go' at F1, then in the space of only a 7 year career winning the WDC, winning 22 races, having 42 podiums, narrowly missing out on the WDC in another year, winning 3 consecutive races in his (real) rookie season in a car when the great Alain Prost was his team mate, nearly winning a race in the Arrows (probably similar to somewhere between the Force India / Sauber and Williams if comparing to this season) but for mechanical issues, winning in a Jordan, taking Williams by the scruff of the neck and dragging them into contention after Senna's death, when the team could have gone the other way very easily etc.

Damon Hill was and still is a class act. A very talented driver. One can only imagine just how good he could have been had he gone down the traditional single seater learning route and entered the sport a decade before he did - he would have been beginning around the same time as Senna in the early - mid 80s. I genuinely would have been fascinated to see a young Hill against Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet, Alboreto, Warwick, Berger, Patrese etc.

[CookinFlat6]

Damon Hill was and still is a class act. A very talented driver. One can only imagine just how good he could have been had he gone down the traditional single seater learning route and entered the sport a decade before he did - he would have been beginning around the same time as Senna in the early - mid 80s. I genuinely would have been fascinated to see a young Hill against Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet, Alboreto, Warwick, Berger, Patrese etc.

Agreed, a deceptively talented driver and if he had started early in karting etc surely would be up there with MS as far as reputation. Button is a poor mans pretend Damon IMO

[LRW]

Very briefly on the Schumacher / Hill Adelaide incident. Schumacher definitely did turn in on Damon deliberately. A car returning to the track after going off (and having an accident), has a responsibility to make sure it does so safely, Schumi failed to do this - Hill was on the apex of the corner when Schumacher turned in on him, there were two turn-in phases and there is absolutely no doubt it was deliberate. And this if from a Schumacher fan, who was up at 4am that day to watch the race. Was still absolutely delighted with the Mansell, Berger, Brundle podium that day though!!

Back to the main point, Damon Hill does not get the respect he deserves for what he achieved in F1. 1992 aside (it doesn't really count), could any of you really imagine someone with no real single seater racing background, aged 32 'having a go' at F1, then in the space of only a 7 year career winning the WDC, winning 22 races, having 42 podiums, narrowly missing out on the WDC in another year, winning 3 consecutive races in his (real) rookie season in a car when the great Alain Prost was his team mate, nearly winning a race in the Arrows (probably similar to somewhere between the Force India / Sauber and Williams if comparing to this season) but for mechanical issues, winning in a Jordan, taking Williams by the scruff of the neck and dragging them into contention after Senna's death, when the team could have gone the other way very easily etc.

Damon Hill was and still is a class act. A very talented driver. One can only imagine just how good he could have been had he gone down the traditional single seater learning route and entered the sport a decade before he did - he would have been beginning around the same time as Senna in the early - mid 80s. I genuinely would have been fascinated to see a young Hill against Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet, Alboreto, Warwick, Berger, Patrese etc.

[racechick]

Very briefly on the Schumacher / Hill Adelaide incident. Schumacher definitely did turn in on Damon deliberately. A car returning to the track after going off (and having an accident), has a responsibility to make sure it does so safely, Schumi failed to do this - Hill was on the apex of the corner when Schumacher turned in on him, there were two turn-in phases and there is absolutely no doubt it was deliberate. And this if from a Schumacher fan, who was up at 4am that day to watch the race. Was still absolutely delighted with the Mansell, Berger, Brundle podium that day though!!

Back to the main point, Damon Hill does not get the respect he deserves for what he achieved in F1. 1992 aside (it doesn't really count), could any of you really imagine someone with no real single seater racing background, aged 32 'having a go' at F1, then in the space of only a 7 year career winning the WDC, winning 22 races, having 42 podiums, narrowly missing out on the WDC in another year, winning 3 consecutive races in his (real) rookie season in a car when the great Alain Prost was his team mate, nearly winning a race in the Arrows (probably similar to somewhere between the Force India / Sauber and Williams if comparing to this season) but for mechanical issues, winning in a Jordan, taking Williams by the scruff of the neck and dragging them into contention after Senna's death, when the team could have gone the other way very easily etc.

Damon Hill was and still is a class act. A very talented driver. One can only imagine just how good he could have been had he gone down the traditional single seater learning route and entered the sport a decade before he did - he would have been beginning around the same time as Senna in the early - mid 80s. I genuinely would have been fascinated to see a young Hill against Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet, Alboreto, Warwick, Berger, Patrese etc.

[Hammer278]

The only Damon Hill win I saw in F1 (since I was following since 1998) was the one he won in a very wet race, I think he was leading a Jordan 1-2. In Spa if I'm not mistaken. That was a fantastic drive in a race I enjoyed immensely.

[racechick]

The only Damon Hill win I saw in F1 (since I was following since 1998) was the one he won in a very wet race, I think he was leading a Jordan 1-2. In Spa if I'm not mistaken. That was a fantastic drive in a race I enjoyed immensely.

That was fantastic! Jordan's first win, and a one /two at that! Some people point to team orders to keep Ralph Schumacher back, but that was near the end of the race and Eddie was protecting his first win. It was pouting with rain and an overtake attempt would have been stupid. Also Damon lost a huge lead he'd built up behind a safety car.

[LewEngBridewell]

The only Damon Hill win I saw in F1 (since I was following since 1998) was the one he won in a very wet race, I think he was leading a Jordan 1-2. In Spa if I'm not mistaken. That was a fantastic drive in a race I enjoyed immensely.

That was fantastic! Jordan's first win, and a one /two at that! Some people point to team orders to keep Ralph Schumacher back, but that was near the end of the race and Eddie was protecting his first win. It was pouting with rain and an overtake attempt would have been stupid. Also Damon lost a huge lead he'd built up behind a safety car.

The 1998 Belgian Grand Prix is one of those legendary races that no-one will ever be allowed to forget, and rightly so!

[andrew]

The only Damon Hill win I saw in F1 (since I was following since 1998) was the one he won in a very wet race, I think he was leading a Jordan 1-2. In Spa if I'm not mistaken. That was a fantastic drive in a race I enjoyed immensely.

That was fantastic! Jordan's first win, and a one /two at that! Some people point to team orders to keep Ralph Schumacher back, but that was near the end of the race and Eddie was protecting his first win. It was pouting with rain and an overtake attempt would have been stupid. Also Damon lost a huge lead he'd built up behind a safety car.

The 1998 Belgian Grand Prix is one of those legendary races that no-one will ever be allowed to forget, and rightly so!

That's the race where Hill was on the radio telling the team to tell Ralf Schumacher (who was a lot faster than him) to back off and not overtake or he'd deliberately ditch the car. So the team order came froma pathetic threat from some has-been/never-was. It's sad to think an amazing driver like Graham Hill is related to that.

[LRW]

wow you really can be mean sometimes.

Its one thing not to like a driver, but man....

So Andrew, your memory of things isnt quite like it happened. Damon didn't threaten anything, he merely pointed out the obvious....