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[pater001]

mmmhhhh eehhhhh mmmhhhhh mmmmhhhhhh YES

[FRAFPDD]

He's actually annoyed me ever since he overtook Hamilton in Brazil 2008, which any driver would do of course, but i just got this air about it that he really didnt want Hamilton to win, perhaps trying to make it easier for himself to get the youngest WDC title.

Ahhhhhh so THAT's where the hatred comes from

In that case, I guess now we know why Glock is doing time in Virgin purgatory hehe.
God is just. God is fair. God is good.

Ive never sung his praises and im glad people are seeing what he's like with a good car, because now we can all see he's utterly usless unless starting from pole and having no competition in the race. He's had what 7 pole positions this season and hasnt won from any of them? How many werent his fault, 2 ?

He cannot defend when under pressure, his race starts are amateur, he cannot overtake at all, his attitude is spoilt. All i can give him in praise is that hes a very very quick driver, but that gets you nowhere alone.

Well, there are some decentish claims there... the same as what everybody is saying...
so he's better when starting from pole and so on. Well...... guess it happens. So far, i think he's VERY fast and has had a bit of poor luck and maybe concentration lapses... Not that he's the worst driver or useless, but def not the best. No reason to get "annoyed" by him though....

I dont hate him the thread was do you find him annoying,i dont hate ANY driver, and never will, unless one goes and cuts the throat of a rival in order to win or something.....touchwood

Im standing by my post though, he is like i said an AMAZINGLY quick "one lapper" but he rests on that laurel too much, he really does have such poor general racecraft he should be learning ropes in GP2 or something. I dont see how anyone can rate him up with Hamilton and Alonso (although even then i find Alonso's lost something he aint getting back!)

[smokin]

Castrol runs a driver ranking system comparing drivers from a number of different racing series. Vettel currently heads this ranking. They base their rankings on qualifying position and race results with additional points for fastest lap during a race, leading the race, leading the most laps, finishing on the lead lap and even points for starting a race. I'm not saying that Vettel values this more than the WDC but I've often found it strange that he likes to have the fastest lap at every race, sometimes even backing off from the car in front near the end just so that he can get in a fast lap in clear air.

Whether or not the Castrol Rankings figures largely in Vettel's thinking, this urge to have the fastest lap tag seems to show that he has a need to prove that he's the best even when he knows that he can't win. By backing off and giving up on the possibility of extra WDC points for something which brings him no benefit towards the championship would indicate that maybe he's trying to prove something to himself. Lack of self-confidence, perhaps?

[scotty]

Castrol runs a driver ranking system comparing drivers from a number of different racing series. Vettel currently heads this ranking. They base their rankings on qualifying position and race results with additional points for fastest lap during a race, leading the race, leading the most laps, finishing on the lead lap and even points for starting a race. I'm not saying that Vettel values this more than the WDC but I've often found it strange that he likes to have the fastest lap at every race, sometimes even backing off from the car in front near the end just so that he can get in a fast lap in clear air.

Whether or not the Castrol Rankings figures largely in Vettel's thinking, this urge to have the fastest lap tag seems to show that he has a need to prove that he's the best even when he knows that he can't win. By backing off and giving up on the possibility of extra WDC points for something which brings him no benefit towards the championship would indicate that maybe he's trying to prove something to himself. Lack of self-confidence, perhaps?

Lack of racecraft i think. Some drivers improve on that with experience but not all, so i guess we'll just have to wait and see.... As for those Castrol rankings, i think that whole thing is more about brand promotion than actually attempting to rank all the drivers in the world - the system is flawed at the moment anyway because it only started running last season.

[The Immortal Dragon]

Although I support Ferrari, I like Vettel very much as a driver.

He is incredibly quick on the single lap, and most of the times (we haven't had that many times to judge, to be honest) he controls the race well when in the lead.
This year is proving to be difficult, though. Because of bad luck and Webber enjoying the season of his life.
But in my opinion he is one of the Top 3 driver at the moment.

And I don't find him annoying either.
He's a quite calm guy, or at least he looks like it from the outside.
What I personally think it's happening is that Vettel is getting annoying to some people because he is Red Bull's pupil. Perhaps, the team would like to go towards Vettel more (like a first driver), but Webber is quicker than expected, and as long as he remains pretty much levelled with Seb (or even in front) the team can't do much to give a small advantage to Seb.
They tried at Silverstone, but it wasn't a great advantage after all.
I think that's it, anyway. He is RBR' pupil and they always protect him, that's why he might seem annoying. But I don't think he is.

[smokin]

Although I support Ferrari, I like Vettel very much as a driver.

He is incredibly quick on the single lap, and most of the times (we haven't had that many times to judge, to be honest) he controls the race well when in the lead.
This year is proving to be difficult, though. Because of bad luck and Webber enjoying the season of his life.
But in my opinion he is one of the Top 3 driver at the moment.

And I don't find him annoying either.
He's a quite calm guy, or at least he looks like it from the outside.
What I personally think it's happening is that Vettel is getting annoying to some people because he is Red Bull's pupil. Perhaps, the team would like to go towards Vettel more (like a first driver), but Webber is quicker than expected, and as long as he remains pretty much levelled with Seb (or even in front) the team can't do much to give a small advantage to Seb.
They tried at Silverstone, but it wasn't a great advantage after all.
I think that's it, anyway. He is RBR' pupil and they always protect him, that's why he might seem annoying. But I don't think he is.

He's calm until he doesn't get his own way. RBR star pupil or not, that doesn't give him the right to 'pout and scweam' when he's not given special treatment. His behaviour after the Hungarian GP was that of a spoilt child who'd had his favourite toy taken away. He displays an annoying sense of entitlement which is entirely unwarranted.

[nish2280]

Although I support Ferrari, I like Vettel very much as a driver.

He is incredibly quick on the single lap, and most of the times (we haven't had that many times to judge, to be honest) he controls the race well when in the lead.
This year is proving to be difficult, though. Because of bad luck and Webber enjoying the season of his life.
But in my opinion he is one of the Top 3 driver at the moment.

And I don't find him annoying either.
He's a quite calm guy, or at least he looks like it from the outside.
What I personally think it's happening is that Vettel is getting annoying to some people because he is Red Bull's pupil. Perhaps, the team would like to go towards Vettel more (like a first driver), but Webber is quicker than expected, and as long as he remains pretty much levelled with Seb (or even in front) the team can't do much to give a small advantage to Seb.
They tried at Silverstone, but it wasn't a great advantage after all.
I think that's it, anyway. He is RBR' pupil and they always protect him, that's why he might seem annoying. But I don't think he is.

He's calm until he doesn't get his own way. RBR star pupil or not, that doesn't give him the right to 'pout and scweam' when he's not given special treatment. His behaviour after the Hungarian GP was that of a spoilt child who'd had his favourite toy taken away. He displays an annoying sense of entitlement which is entirely unwarranted.

No his behavior at the Hungarian GP in my opinion was just his frustration at letting ANOTHER race slip away from his grasp after SO many chances that he has had to win. I mean your not going to be happy qualifying first and then ending 3rd and knowing that it kinda was your own fault.

[smokin]

No his behavior at the Hungarian GP in my opinion was just his frustration at letting ANOTHER race slip away from his grasp after SO many chances that he has had to win. I mean your not going to be happy qualifying first and then ending 3rd and knowing that it kinda was your own fault.

I think on this one we'll agree to disagree.

[Peng]

Well, there are some decentish claims there... the same as what everybody is saying...
so he's better when starting from pole and so on. Well...... guess it happens. So far, i think he's VERY fast and has had a bit of poor luck and maybe concentration lapses... Not that he's the worst driver or useless, but def not the best. No reason to get "annoyed" by him though....

Personally i wouldn't even say he is really fast since Webber has beaten him on several poles or atleast come very very close when he puts in a good lap, the one and i mean only one thing Vettel is currently good at is putting in that one perfect lap in qualifying and doing it very consistently which alot of drivers just cannot do and if he can hone the rest of his driving skills better he could easily become one of the best.

But as has been said his starts are terrible and he is only good when he is leading the race and doesn't have someone behind him matching his pace, the fact is he is still very much a rookie when it comes to F1 which is fine because he is young and he will learn but you shouldn't be capable of winning a championship with Vettel's current abilities as a driver and that is my problem with the fact he could just because no other team has been able to really keep up with RBR.

Webber in my opinion is a better driver because of experience but Webber just isn't consistent enough and has never been.

But in my opinion he is one of the Top 3 driver at the moment.

I would love to know what your top 10 drivers are at the moment because you are seriously overrating Vettel and you must be underrating some very good drivers.

[The Immortal Dragon]

He scored 7 pole position during this season, if I'm correct.
That is something to keep into consideration.
Sometimes he couldn't keep the lead at the start (Silverstone, Hockenheim), but sometimes he just retired because of a technical fault which isn't his fault.
He made some mistakes, but all the top 5 drivers in the championship have.

Also one season doesn't tell the whole tale.
He was the only true opponent to Brawn (or Button, really) last year, and Webber managed to follow him closely only for 2/3rds of the Championship.
You can't just take into consideration the current season.
(And he won at Monza on a Toro Rosso, come on!)


@Peng, I personally believe Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton are the top 3 driver at the moment.
Not considering Schumacher because I personally have no idea where he actually is now. Of course, the old Michael Schumacher would be in front of Vettel in my ranking.
Webber and Button would be just behind the top 3

But this is not the right topic to talk about our best drivers.

[Peng]

@Peng, I personally believe Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton are the top 3 driver at the moment.
Not considering Schumacher because I personally have no idea where he actually is now. Of course, the old Michael Schumacher would be in front of Vettel in my ranking.
Webber and Button would be just behind the top 3

But this is not the right topic to talk about our best drivers.

So you only rate the drivers in the top 3 teams because those are the only teams that are competing for the championship?

There are drivers better than Vettel stuck in under performing cars Barrichello is a good example same with Kubica, people are seriously overrating him just because the RBR car is so amazing this season.

Webber in my opinion is better than Vettel its just Webber has never really been consistent with his driving and that is the only thing stopping him from beating Vettel and maybe winning the WDC this season.

And well Button everyone seems to underrate because he has never really been good at qualifying and yet he seems to "luck" out as people claim just because they cant understand how great a tactical driver he is.

I am sure most will disagree because Vettel is the new wonder kid in F1 but he really isn't that great yet.

Also one season doesn't tell the whole tale.
He was the only true opponent to Brawn (or Button, really) last year, and Webber managed to follow him closely only for 2/3rds of the Championship.
You can't just take into consideration the current season.
(And he won at Monza on a Toro Rosso, come on!).

Ferrari had a terrible car the entire season, Mclaren had a terrible car the first 2/3 of the season and none of the other teams have really been fast enough for a while now so yes RBR were the only real competition for Brawn last season but that doesn't make Vettel an awesome driver.

As i said in another thread RBR have had a very similar if not bigger advantage than Brawn had last season and because of their drivers lack of experience/skill they haven't even come close to monopolizing it like Brawn did so it strange why people think they are so great, i was personally expecting Vettel/Webber to be 100+ points ahead this far into the season so i am glad i am not a betting man.

[myownalias]

Sebastian Vettel is clearly a talented driver, a young driver that is far from the completed package, I have not issues with his abilities, I have no doubt he will be a future world champion at some point. But many people including myself have an issue with his whiny nature, his perceived preferential treatment within the team, watch some of his interviews after the race when he didn't win, he comes across as a spoilt brat who has had all his toys taken away from him. His impetuous move on Webber in Turkey, trying to force Mark to move, Webber gave him enough room to pass, Vettel caused that accident by trying to force Mark wide and of course the teams reaction to the incident, squarely putting the blame on Mark. Just a few things that have annoyed me this season!

[The Immortal Dragon]

@Peng, I personally believe Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton are the top 3 driver at the moment.
Not considering Schumacher because I personally have no idea where he actually is now. Of course, the old Michael Schumacher would be in front of Vettel in my ranking.
Webber and Button would be just behind the top 3

But this is not the right topic to talk about our best drivers.

So you only rate the drivers in the top 3 teams because those are the only teams that are competing for the championship?

Not at all.

Alonso is a 2 times WC who I think proved his talent against (my pupil) Schumi, Hamilton is clearly quick and aggressive and is the best in overtaking at the moment. And I just think Vettel has the talent to be just shy of them. If he hasn't used it all, that's not my fault.
But not many young drivers would place a Toro Rosso on pole at Monza in the rain, that's for sure.

For the others.. I don't think Barrichello is a great driver.. is a good driver, but as many others. Webber is indeed a very good driver. He produced a stunning drive in Hungary, no doubt. But if you look at the previous years, he wasn't the best. Last year he was outplayed by Vettel, and back in Williams he didn't really shine on his team mates. It's a difficult one with Webber, because I believe he's having the year of his life. (not that he otherwise sucks)
Button.. I liked button since 2006, when he surprisingly got pole at Imola. He's a very good driver, smooth.. but I believe he's just shy of Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel.
That's just my opinion

[Rivers]

Sebastian Vettel is clearly a talented driver, a young driver that is far from the completed package, I have not issues with his abilities, I have no doubt he will be a future world champion at some point. But many people including myself have an issue with his whiny nature, his perceived preferential treatment within the team, watch some of his interviews after the race when he didn't win, he comes across as a spoilt brat who has had all his toys taken away from him. His impetuous move on Webber in Turkey, trying to force Mark to move, Webber gave him enough room to pass, Vettel caused that accident by trying to force Mark wide and of course the teams reaction to the incident, squarely putting the blame on Mark. Just a few things that have annoyed me this season!

Pretty much said what I would say on this issue.

Vettel still has it all to come, but the reality is that at the moment what he has is a great perfect qualifying lap ability and thats about it. He has had 7 poles this season, and guess what. He has won from pole just once this season. So 6 times something went wrong. Either it was a mechanical issue - Bahrain; Australia; in China RBR strategy wasn`t good; Valencia - Made a good start and that`s not a place to screw up once you get the lead so won;
Silverstone - Bad start and then all the mess came
Germany - Screwed the start up;
Hungaroring - Gave a gift to Webber by makign another mistake - And then had a face like someone else screwed up his race not he himself. He had the rights to be disappointed, but don`t make the face like it`s the stewards, teams or Webbers fault that Vettel ended up where he did.

He`s calm as long as nobody challenges him; once that happens, all the calmness just disappears and fingers and other signs just pop out. So he`s not that calm. After this many times you would expect him to start to take it as nothing special. Kimi used to retire from lead or other normal places quite often and didn`t seem to make too much out of that.

At the end of the day Vettel can say and do what he wants. Not my problem, but his.

[The Immortal Dragon]

I don't think he knew what the drive through was for in Hungary.
You could tell from what he said on the radio.
And if I were his race engineer, I wouldn't waste time explaining him what he did wrong. I would do that at the end of the race.
And I'm sure that is what happened.
So when the race was finished and Vettel was in the press conference he had pretty much no idea of what he did, also because it's pretty rare that rule gets broken.
And obviously.. he was leading and "something" gave the win to Webber, that "something" being breaking a rule he didn't remember doing; so of course he was irritated and felt like someone took the win away from him.
But I'm sure that as soon as he saw the footage of what happened (and maybe read the SC regulations) he accepted the blame for the mistake.