FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[ChOnG]

Its very tricky really.

They talk about reducing the aero dramatically to allow cars to follow better, but then this cuts the cornering speeds. And in my opinion changes what F1 is, F1 is all about the technology and development of the cars. Yeh sure the main thing is racing but theres all different kinds of racing and F1 is the one most here choose to follow because of the speed/money/technology and danger involved in it. They need to stop trying to even the field, by having same engines etc as we know the cars cant follow each other well, so with 24 identical cars the problem would be even worse. Give the teams the freedom of coming up with ideas to make there cars follow better or gain an advantage i say.

[Jensonb]

Here's the thing, the Formula we're working with has been changed incrementally every year for the past few decades. Each time, little bits were altered in isolation - with no apparent regard for or knowledge of what effects these changes would have combined with other changes made previously. What we need to do is throw out the rule book and write a new one.

It's worth noting FOTA's and the Overtaking Working Group's dirty little secret as well. For all they work to promote overtaking...The last thing that any of them want is overtaking.

[Trypt]

...Um...You are aware that socialism and fascism are basically opposites, right?

Fascism, aka corporatism is a marriage of pseudo-private corporations and the government (with the two merging more and more as time passes), with private enterprise only acceptable in theory. Socialism goes a bit further and gets rid of any private ownership altogether, no facade. Fascism is one step further from liberty towards statism (with socialism further away from liberty still), fascism is a mild form of socialism which regards liberty as the enemy. Both prefer communism as their economic system of choice, they just define it a bit differently, and both are flatly against individual rights. Western society in general has used the Soviet model and is moving towards this end, first fascism (we're pretty much there already), then socialism. As a student of politics for half my life, I should know what I'm talking about. But this is not the place for a political debate, although do PM if you're interested in learning more.

1. Return of Turbos, if it does happen - as discussed in Jensonb's thread.
2. Complete and total elimination of diffusers - only a flat floor with no holes allowed (and subject to FIA inspection with every loophole sewn up).
3. Manual gearboxes - increase brake distances, and it would be great to see some of the young drivers struggling under pressure through missing gears.
4. Widening the cars back to 1997 specification - I don't know why they never bothered with this when they brought slicks back.
5. Tilke tracks to be modified for better overtaking - enough said.
6. Massive reduction on aerodynamics - you can never eliminate them, and Frank Dernie said they are not the entirety of the problem, but they are certainly the main offender right now. Reducing aerodynamic grip by making the front and rear wings simple with no fiddly bits added on to them (especially the front wings!), making cars bulkier so a larger hole can be punched in the air allowing for an overtake would help quite a bit too.
7. Fat rear slicks - more grip.
8. Tyre war - enough said.

I like, I like a lot. All of the recommendations are there for the taking, I hope FIA reads this forum, lol. Manual gear changing would be interesting, don't they do that already tho, just without a clutch?

But what do you mean by widening the cars? What would that do, and why are they narrower now to begin with?

Also, I'm not sure if the whole aerodynamics thing is true, I've read many different opinions.

[Arsenal 1-nil]

Anything that decreases aero-grip and increases mechanical-grip is good. Love the idea of manual gearboxes.

[headless]

mate you missed the 'down' bit off your name

[Frosty]

I know it's a cliche which I only tend to use (and if it even could be considered a cliche), but if F1 wants to move forwards in terms of on track excitement, it's going to have to take a step backwards in some areas.

Judging by what has been said in this thread, these are the best ways forward;

1. Return of Turbos, if it does happen - as discussed in Jensonb's thread.
2. Complete and total elimination of diffusers - only a flat floor with no holes allowed (and subject to FIA inspection with every loophole sewn up).
3. Manual gearboxes - increase brake distances, and it would be great to see some of the young drivers struggling under pressure through missing gears.
4. Widening the cars back to 1997 specification - I don't know why they never bothered with this when they brought slicks back.
5. Tilke tracks to be modified for better overtaking - enough said.
6. Massive reduction on aerodynamics - you can never eliminate them, and Frank Dernie said they are not the entirety of the problem, but they are certainly the main offender right now. Reducing aerodynamic grip by making the front and rear wings simple with no fiddly bits added on to them (especially the front wings!), making cars bulkier so a larger hole can be punched in the air allowing for an overtake would help quite a bit too.
7. Fat rear slicks - more grip.
8. Tyre war - enough said.

I know F1 is supposed to be the most technologically advanced motorsport and in some eyes the above would contravene that, nobody complained when CVT, Active suspension et al were banned like scotty hinted. If McLaren's blown wing concept isn't advancement, what is?

The teams have tried to take that step backward with last year's regulations, but I didn't think they'd taken enough of a step back, the cars should have been re-widened, and then after three exciting opening races, everybody turned up with Double Diffusers and the processions returned...

I agree with everything apart from the gearboxes.

[Jensonb]

...Um...You are aware that socialism and fascism are basically opposites, right?

Fascism, aka corporatism is a marriage of pseudo-private corporations and the government (with the two merging more and more as time passes), with private enterprise only acceptable in theory. Socialism goes a bit further and gets rid of any private ownership altogether, no facade. Fascism is one step further from liberty towards statism (with socialism further away from liberty still), fascism is a mild form of socialism which regards liberty as the enemy. Both prefer communism as their economic system of choice, they just define it a bit differently, and both are flatly against individual rights. Western society in general has used the Soviet model and is moving towards this end, first fascism (we're pretty much there already), then socialism. As a student of politics for half my life, I should know what I'm talking about. But this is not the place for a political debate, although do PM if you're interested in learning more.

Bull. Crap. Socialism is nothing like fascism. You are referring to "State Socialism", which is similar to fascism both in that it is a (Flawed) radicalist expression of broader political ideas and as you described. But fascism is not related to socialism. Fascism is advocated by and built on the principles of the political right. Socialism is based on the principles of the political left, do not sully the good name of socialism by lumping it in the same boat as the Nazis and the BNP (Fascists) or the former USSR and China (State Socialists) - that's what the idiots on the American political right (By which I mean FOX News, and NOT the many perfectly reasonable conservatives) do to discourage the public from daring to notice the left wing is frequently the better option for their well-being.

[scotty]

I know it's a cliche which I only tend to use (and if it even could be considered a cliche), but if F1 wants to move forwards in terms of on track excitement, it's going to have to take a step backwards in some areas.

Judging by what has been said in this thread, these are the best ways forward;

1. Return of Turbos, if it does happen - as discussed in Jensonb's thread.
2. Complete and total elimination of diffusers - only a flat floor with no holes allowed (and subject to FIA inspection with every loophole sewn up).
3. Manual gearboxes - increase brake distances, and it would be great to see some of the young drivers struggling under pressure through missing gears.
4. Widening the cars back to 1997 specification - I don't know why they never bothered with this when they brought slicks back.
5. Tilke tracks to be modified for better overtaking - enough said.
6. Massive reduction on aerodynamics - you can never eliminate them, and Frank Dernie said they are not the entirety of the problem, but they are certainly the main offender right now. Reducing aerodynamic grip by making the front and rear wings simple with no fiddly bits added on to them (especially the front wings!), making cars bulkier so a larger hole can be punched in the air allowing for an overtake would help quite a bit too.
7. Fat rear slicks - more grip.
8. Tyre war - enough said.

I know F1 is supposed to be the most technologically advanced motorsport and in some eyes the above would contravene that, nobody complained when CVT, Active suspension et al were banned like scotty hinted. If McLaren's blown wing concept isn't advancement, what is?

The teams have tried to take that step backward with last year's regulations, but I didn't think they'd taken enough of a step back, the cars should have been re-widened, and then after three exciting opening races, everybody turned up with Double Diffusers and the processions returned...

Let me condense that down for you We basically want more power than grip! (Relatively speaking that is).

The opposite of the current generation of F1 cars...

[racechick]

Let me condense that down for you We basically want more power than grip! (Relatively speaking that is).

The opposite of the current generation of F1 cars...

[vaptin]

Let me condense that down for you We basically want more power than grip! (Relatively speaking that is).

The opposite of the current generation of F1 cars...

More power than grip means there's a reserve available for drivers if they want to risk an overtake.

Although the dirty air situation which makes it hard for cars to follow needs to be resolved as well, as that means the power greater than the other car must also be greater enough to allow the car behind to overcome the dirty air.

[MAD MAX]

Even the drivers think its boring http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/motorsport/2901095/The-bored-ultimatum-for-Jenson.html

[Jamie]

[pilotfriend]

If the racing is going to be like that, I shall watch flat green bowling.....by comparison, REALLY EXCITING!!!

[EwanM]

If you find it boring don't watch.

Try it.

[7UpJordan]

If the racing is going to be like that, I shall watch flat green bowling.....by comparison, REALLY EXCITING!!!

Oh deer, all of a sudden I am getting images in my head of what Legard would be like commentating on Bowls...

"AND THE BIG BLACK BOWL HAS JUST JOINED THE BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!!! ON A CHARGE!!! CAN HE HIT THE WHITE BALL????????? No......................."