FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[darwin dali]

Hopefully we'll see a real comparison of the Brawn and Red Bull Racing aerodynamic packages this weekend. Even if RBR don't win this time round, I can see them being the team to beat at Monaco - especially if Newey manages to get those updates spot-on.

That's exactly the problem though: with no testing of the bits, chances are that Newey could screw up the car and it loses its raw speed by compromising too much to accommodate the super diffuser...

This is true, but there's nothing saying that such an outcome is any more or less likely than him being successful. I mean, you just have to look at how little track-time the BGP 001 had pre-season...

Yes, but Ross Brawn is a genius - the jury is still out on Newey, maybe this modification will show he truly can do it without testing which would be pure genius.

[Chris_0648]

It'll be interesting to see how the DDD runs on the Red Bull car when they eventually get it going.

I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be no quicker because the Red Bull is pretty unique in terms of its mechanics and aero. I imagine there has to be a hell of a lot to be changed - not quite the same as bolting one on like Macca and Renault have done for the past few weeks.
I'm still trying to figure out how it can accomodate a DDD and keep its rear suspension un-changed. I'm sure Newey will do it pretty damn well though

Back to the Spanish GP - big test for the new overtaking regs this weekend...

[racechick]

Hopefully we'll see a real comparison of the Brawn and Red Bull Racing aerodynamic packages this weekend. Even if RBR don't win this time round, I can see them being the team to beat at Monaco - especially if Newey manages to get those updates spot-on.

That's exactly the problem though: with no testing of the bits, chances are that Newey could screw up the car and it loses its raw speed by compromising too much to accommodate the super diffuser...

This is true, but there's nothing saying that such an outcome is any more or less likely than him being successful. I mean, you just have to look at how little track-time the BGP 001 had pre-season...

Yes, but Ross Brawn is a genius - the jury is still out on Newey, maybe this modification will show he truly can do it without testing which would be pure genius.

Newey is a genius, more pure a one than Brawn, which is not neccesarily a good thing.
Ha! just seen the pure in your post!
What i mean is that Braun's talents are more diverse, newey's go deaper technically.

[Denthúl]

Hopefully we'll see a real comparison of the Brawn and Red Bull Racing aerodynamic packages this weekend. Even if RBR don't win this time round, I can see them being the team to beat at Monaco - especially if Newey manages to get those updates spot-on.

That's exactly the problem though: with no testing of the bits, chances are that Newey could screw up the car and it loses its raw speed by compromising too much to accommodate the super diffuser...

This is true, but there's nothing saying that such an outcome is any more or less likely than him being successful. I mean, you just have to look at how little track-time the BGP 001 had pre-season...

Yes, but Ross Brawn is a genius - the jury is still out on Newey, maybe this modification will show he truly can do it without testing which would be pure genius.

Newey is a genius, more pure a one than Brawn, which is not neccesarily a good thing.
Ha! just seen the pure in your post!
What i mean is that Braun's talents are more diverse, newey's go deaper technically.

Newey has designed far too many cars/parts that fell apart, though. When was the last time you saw a car influenced by Brawn retire fourteen times in one season?

[7UpJordan]

Newey has designed far too many cars/parts that fell apart, though. When was the last time you saw a car influenced by Brawn retire fourteen times in one season?

Newey's reliability record has never been great since he left Williams, back then he had people like Patrick Head to keep him in check, and the cars Williams produced at that time were practically bulletproof - the 1991 FW14's semi-automatic gearbox aside.

[darwin dali]

Hopefully we'll see a real comparison of the Brawn and Red Bull Racing aerodynamic packages this weekend. Even if RBR don't win this time round, I can see them being the team to beat at Monaco - especially if Newey manages to get those updates spot-on.

That's exactly the problem though: with no testing of the bits, chances are that Newey could screw up the car and it loses its raw speed by compromising too much to accommodate the super diffuser...

This is true, but there's nothing saying that such an outcome is any more or less likely than him being successful. I mean, you just have to look at how little track-time the BGP 001 had pre-season...

Yes, but Ross Brawn is a genius - the jury is still out on Newey, maybe this modification will show he truly can do it without testing which would be pure genius.

Newey is a genius, more pure a one than Brawn, which is not neccesarily a good thing.
Ha! just seen the pure in your post!
What i mean is that Braun's talents are more diverse, newey's go deaper technically.

I think we agree on that already - wider vs. deeper, BUT what is more relevant and helpful for an F1 team who wants to win races? RB seems to be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat whenever it's necessary to win a race - seriously doubt Newey's talent in that department.

[racechick]

You had me confused there RB-Red Bull?
No newey is not a team manager in that sense, he produces the goods and someone else has to do something with them. He needs the perfect right hand man then he would be formidable.

[Jensonb]

I rate Geoff Willis very highly, I think he may have it in him to ensure reliability in Newey's work

[cap-dude]

No, I think the new Red Bull will be instantly fast. The amount of simulation work they do among other things, I don't think there'll be a compromise at all. These guys are just so smart in the way they design the cars, I can't see something like that happening.

[darwin dali]

No, I think the new Red Bull will be instantly fast. The amount of simulation work they do among other things, I don't think there'll be a compromise at all. These guys are just so smart in the way they design the cars, I can't see something like that happening.

It's not just speed that determines whether or not a car can win a race - it's also reliability. There Ross has the edge vs. Newey and you can't really test that other than on the race track in a real race. We'll see...

[Denthúl]

No, I think the new Red Bull will be instantly fast. The amount of simulation work they do among other things, I don't think there'll be a compromise at all. These guys are just so smart in the way they design the cars, I can't see something like that happening.

It's not just speed that determines whether or not a car can win a race - it's also reliability. There Ross has the edge vs. Newey and you can't really test that other than on the race track in a real race. We'll see...

Hasn't the Brawn shown more signs of potential reliability issues than the Red Bull so far, though?

[scotty]

No, I think the new Red Bull will be instantly fast. The amount of simulation work they do among other things, I don't think there'll be a compromise at all. These guys are just so smart in the way they design the cars, I can't see something like that happening.

It's not just speed that determines whether or not a car can win a race - it's also reliability. There Ross has the edge vs. Newey and you can't really test that other than on the race track in a real race. We'll see...

Hasn't the Brawn shown more signs of potential reliability issues than the Red Bull so far, though?

If i remember rightly, the only problems Brawn have had are gearbox related, whereas RB have had more minor niggles (i think they've certainly had driveshaft problems)...

[racechick]

No, I think the new Red Bull will be instantly fast. The amount of simulation work they do among other things, I don't think there'll be a compromise at all. These guys are just so smart in the way they design the cars, I can't see something like that happening.

It's not just speed that determines whether or not a car can win a race - it's also reliability. There Ross has the edge vs. Newey and you can't really test that other than on the race track in a real race. We'll see...

Hasn't the Brawn shown more signs of potential reliability issues than the Red Bull so far, though?

If i remember rightly, the only problems Brawn have had are gearbox related, whereas RB have had more minor niggles (i think they've certainly had driveshaft problems)...

Didnt the Brawns run too hot and have to have little holes cut in the bodywork?

[Frosty]

No, I think the new Red Bull will be instantly fast. The amount of simulation work they do among other things, I don't think there'll be a compromise at all. These guys are just so smart in the way they design the cars, I can't see something like that happening.

It's not just speed that determines whether or not a car can win a race - it's also reliability. There Ross has the edge vs. Newey and you can't really test that other than on the race track in a real race. We'll see...

Hasn't the Brawn shown more signs of potential reliability issues than the Red Bull so far, though?

If i remember rightly, the only problems Brawn have had are gearbox related, whereas RB have had more minor niggles (i think they've certainly had driveshaft problems)...

Didnt the Brawns run too hot and have to have little holes cut in the bodywork?

Yeah but I doubt any of the other races this year will be that hot and they still won!

[racechick]

No, I think the new Red Bull will be instantly fast. The amount of simulation work they do among other things, I don't think there'll be a compromise at all. These guys are just so smart in the way they design the cars, I can't see something like that happening.

It's not just speed that determines whether or not a car can win a race - it's also reliability. There Ross has the edge vs. Newey and you can't really test that other than on the race track in a real race. We'll see...

Hasn't the Brawn shown more signs of potential reliability issues than the Red Bull so far, though?

If i remember rightly, the only problems Brawn have had are gearbox related, whereas RB have had more minor niggles (i think they've certainly had driveshaft problems)...

Didnt the Brawns run too hot and have to have little holes cut in the bodywork?

Yeah but I doubt any of the other races this year will be that hot and they still won!

Very true. But they may not have won had Vettel had a better race and Jens not got lucky with how cars got held up. I know I know all speculation but i think the red bull was as fast.