FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[darwin dali]

My 2 cents is that i think some key points are being overreacted to, causing the somewhat OTT reactionary arguments on both sides.

I don't think anyone is calling for an outright ban, just measures to control who has access to them. Much like vehicles, as that jokey picture i posted alludes to. And unless i missed something, there is nothing like that in place at the moment over there. That surely is a completely fair thing to say, and for the US to try to implement?

One thing i see no reason for, is the ability to buy stupidly high powered weapons. I heard you can buy a Barrett 50cal in some states without a permit needed or anything, i mean what the absolute hell? No civilian needs a weapon that powerful.

I'm sure someone would say they need one of those to protect their family.

BTW, so ya'll know the 'mentality' gun stores are selling out on their AK 15 Bushmaster rifles here. It's been good short term for the gun industry since everyone is convinced that Obama will take away their guns.

The reality is that 40% of all guns sold here are sold either through the internet from private sales or from gun shows where you don't need anything but a driver's license to walk out of a show with a 30 round clip and an AK-15 for $800 bucks. No questions asked, no training, no registration, no gun lock, just enjoy your shooting Merry Christmas. Now you're ready to go hunting or to defend your family because a Glock 19 or a Sig Sauer 9mm with a ten bullet clip isn't enough to defend your family.

The Bushmaster is the AR-15. AK stands for Avtomat Kalashnikova aka AK-47 or Kalashnikov, a classic.

[scotty]

Primitive beings aren't we to be fascinated by guns in such a way.

See i think they're actually bloody amazing things... but only PURELY from an engineering standpoint.

[Jabberwocky]

I don't see the need for anyone to own an automatic weapon.

[What's Burning?]

Unfortunately internet memes are easier to digest than actual newspaper reports citing statistical analysis. The facts below are from a comprehensive writeup a couple of days ago in the Washington Post.

Twelve facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States
1. Shooting sprees are not rare in the United States.

Mother Jones has tracked and mapped every shooting spree in the last three decades. “Since 1982, there have been at least 61 mass murders carried out with firearms across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii,” they found. And in most cases, the killers had obtained their weapons legally:

2. 15 of the 25 worst mass shootings in the last 50 years took place in the United States.

Time has the full list here. In second place is Finland, with two entries.

3. Lots of guns don’t necessarily mean lots of shootings, as you can see in Israel and Switzerland.*

4. Of the 11 deadliest shootings in the US, five have happened from 2007 onward.
That doesn’t include Friday’s shooting in Sandy Hook, Connecticut. The AP put the early reported death toll at 27, which would make it the second-deadliest mass shooting in US history.

5. America is an unusually violent country. But we’re not as violent as we used to be.

Kieran Healy, a sociologist at Duke University, made this graph of “deaths due to assault” in the United States and other developed countries. We are a clear outlier.

6. The South is the most violent region in the United States.

In a subsequent post, Healy drilled further into the numbers and looked at deaths due to assault in different regions of the country. Just as the United States is a clear outlier in the international context, the South is a clear outlier in the national context:

7. Gun ownership in the United States is declining overall.

“For all the attention given to America’s culture of guns, ownership of firearms is at or near all-time lows,” writes political scientist Patrick Egan. The decline is most evident on the General Social Survey, though it also shows up on polling from Gallup, as you can see on this graph:

8. More guns tend to mean more homicide.

The Harvard Injury Control Research Center assessed the literature on guns and homicide and found that there’s substantial evidence that indicates more guns means more murders. This holds true whether you’re looking at different countries or different states.

9. States with stricter gun control laws have fewer deaths from gun-related violence.

Last year, economist Richard Florida dove deep into the correlations between gun deaths and other kinds of social indicators. Some of what he found was, perhaps, unexpected: Higher populations, more stress, more immigrants, and more mental illness were not correlated with more deaths from gun violence. But one thing he found was, perhaps, perfectly predictable: States with tighter gun control laws appear to have fewer gun-related deaths. The disclaimer here is that correlation is not causation. But correlations can be suggestive:

10. Gun control, in general, has not been politically popular.

Since 1990, Gallup has been asking Americans whether they think gun control laws should be stricter. The answer, increasingly, is that they don’t. “The percentage in favor of making the laws governing the sale of firearms ‘more strict’ fell from 78% in 1990 to 62% in 1995, and 51% in 2007,” reports Gallup. “In the most recent reading, Gallup in 2010 found 44% in favor of stricter laws. In fact, in 2009 and again last year, the slight majority said gun laws should either remain the same or be made less strict.”

Personal Note: this is as of 2010, the opinion has sharply swung back since the shootings over the last year.

11. But particular policies to control guns often are.

An August CNN/ORC poll asked respondents whether they favor or oppose a number of specific policies to restrict gun ownership. And when you drill down to that level, many policies, including banning the manufacture and possession of semi-automatic rifles, are popular.

12. Shootings don’t tend to substantially affect views on gun control.

Full Article, including some pretty sobering statistical graphs

[darwin dali]

I doubt the claim that gun ownership is at a low: especially in view that there are currently over 300 million guns in the US, more than ever and more than one gun per capita (incl. children, etc.). So, the gun nuts must be hoarding TONS of guns each.

[What's Burning?]

I doubt the claim that gun ownership is at a low: especially in view that there are currently over 300 million guns in the US, more than ever and more than one gun per capita (incl. children, etc.). So, the gun nuts must be hoarding TONS of guns each.

Guns are like tattoos, you don't just get one. There were 160 million guns in the US in 1964 according to a clip I just saw that had LBJ speaking out after some of his gun control laws were passed in congress. Less households have a gun, but more households have a larger number of guns. If you get rid of your gun, unless it's turned into a plowshare, someone else is buying your gun.

[bud]

Did I hear right? An NRA spokesman said the three reasons Americans should be allowed to bear arms are;

1. Self defense -learn Kung fu, while you're at it you'll burn off your fat burger beer gut

2. Hunting - go buy meat from the butcher or catch it with your bare hands like a real hunter.

3. To stand up against the government if it doesn't represent the best interest of the people(Cannot remember the exact wording but the gist of it was that)So if the laws change and their guns taken away can we expect another civil war?

PS NRA you'll lose... they have the best defense force in the world, you might as well fight with nerf guns

[geetface9]

Wholeheartedly agree that nobody except military personnel need automatic weapons. I also agree a thorough background check should be made for people buying weapons. Now, the argument on that is, where is the line drawn to exclude people who have/haven't done this or that from buying a weapon? aha!! A whole new debate there, my friends!

[What's Burning?]

Wholeheartedly agree that nobody except military personnel need automatic weapons. I also agree a thorough background check should be made for people buying weapons. Now, the argument on that is, where is the line drawn to exclude people who have/haven't done this or that from buying a weapon? aha!! A whole new debate there, my friends!

How is the line to be drawn blurry? If you have a felony, violent crime, any assault with a weapon, history of spousal abuse, history of mental issues where the recommendation of doctors say you shouldn't have a gun, if you're on a suspected terrorist list, if you are purchasing a specific type of weapon, or have amassed a certain amount of weapons. I don't think you'll get a lot of debate with those.

IMO, you shouldn't be allowed to purchase a gun without having an associated child safety lock for it, you also should not be allowed to have certain guns if you don't can't show that you have a safe to keep them in. It should also be mandatory that you take a gun safety course and a gun use certificate for each type of gun you own.

A background check doesn't mean NO, it means just that, you have to pass a background check.

Are you afraid they'll add people that post on F1 forums to the list?

[geetface9]

No, I'm just certain there are many grey areas. Obviously there are many more crimes than those you listed, so perhaps it would mean that a background check would be on a 'case by case basis' when it comes to people with misdemeanors, whether it's DUI, theft, trespassing, etc. ...it's hard to know which ones indicate mental instability or just that you $#@!ed up when you were 15 years old and got caught.

And all that case by case basis....bah all kinds of tie ups and waiting periods, more judges, more courts, more time, more taxpayer money, more everything.... blah the logistics!!

[Jabberwocky]

Maybe we are looking at this wrong. I think we should let everyone buy any gun they want. However we should control all ammunition sales.

[Denthúl]

Maybe we are looking at this wrong. I think we should let everyone buy any gun they want. However we should control all ammunition sales.

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I don't think the UK's gun laws are too bad, although there are some parts that I don't agree with. Preventing people from purchasing fully-automatic and crazy high-powered (the 50 cal as already mentioned) would probably be a step in the right direction.

[myownalias]

I saw a stat on CNN this morning saying that there are 268 shooting each day; which equates to almost 98k people shot every year... with those sort of numbers; how can anyone say that tighter gun control is not needed? No person should be able to own an assault rifle; this is the USA, not Afghanistan, Iraq, or Syria, I think that *some* Americans have a sick mentality; the amount of AR15 assault rifles sold since the Sandy Hook atrocity is astonishing; even more astonishing is that gun retailers are raising prices to profit from the tragedy!

[Jabberwocky]

It is no worse than apple putting the Micheal Jackson, or Amy Winehouse prices up just after they died

[scotty]

Kind of is though, cause this is cold blooded murder, not someone dying though other (i hesitate to say natural with the two you mention!) causes.