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[nish2280]

OK, slightly off the current chain of thought but i was just watching the Formula One .com race edit and i noticed that Lewis says on the radio "Jens is holding me up".

Sound to me like he was asking for some team orders. Its not that different to Fernando's "I am faster than Felipe".

Even over warbly race radio the names "Felipe" and "Jens" sound nothing a like.

I'm guessing that was one of your terrible jokes...

[racechick]

OK, slightly off the current chain of thought but i was just watching the Formula One .com race edit and i noticed that Lewis says on the radio "Jens is holding me up".

Sound to me like he was asking for some team orders. Its not that different to Fernando's "I am faster than Felipe".

And so Jens was holding him up. Lewis wasnt screaming down the radio "This is ridiculous. Think of the championship". He was just stating a fact.

[scotty]

OK, slightly off the current chain of thought but i was just watching the Formula One .com race edit and i noticed that Lewis says on the radio "Jens is holding me up".

Sound to me like he was asking for some team orders. Its not that different to Fernando's "I am faster than Felipe".

And so Jens was holding him up. Lewis wasnt screaming down the radio "This is ridiculous. Think of the championship". He was just stating a fact.

But Alonso wasn't stating a fact if he said he was faster than Massa in Germany? Ok...

[racechick]

OK, slightly off the current chain of thought but i was just watching the Formula One .com race edit and i noticed that Lewis says on the radio "Jens is holding me up".

Sound to me like he was asking for some team orders. Its not that different to Fernando's "I am faster than Felipe".

And so Jens was holding him up. Lewis wasnt screaming down the radio "This is ridiculous. Think of the championship". He was just stating a fact.

But Alonso wasn't stating a fact if he said he was faster than Massa in Germany? Ok...

No because thats not what he said, he said " This is ridiculous. Think of the championship" And he went on and on about it until Smedley came on with the team orders.

[scotty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TZmki_ZHOg

Alonso - "I am much quicker than Felipe"

Smedley to Massa (pre-incident) - "You need to pick up the pace because Fernando is faster"

Yeah

[racechick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TZmki_ZHOg

Alonso - "I am much quicker than Felipe"

Smedley to Massa (pre-incident) - "You need to pick up the pace because Fernando is faster"

Yeah

I dont see your point. Alonso said a whole lot more than that and subsequently got massa moved over. Lewis didnt whinge on about championships and jens didnt get moved aside.. He was on a different tyre strategy to Jenson, if he was getting held up the team would need to know so they could bring him in quicker. If lewis wanted to cheat ke Alonso with team orders, there were plenty of opportunities.

[vaptin]

Sounds like he was implying he wanted Jenson out of the way, or if we borrow one of the accusations thrown at Alonso on here, why didn't he simply overtake Jenson? Can be seen as asking for team orders, in the same way "if I slow down would Jenson try and pass me" can be seen as team orders. . .

[racechick]

Sounds like he was implying he wanted Jenson out of the way, or if we borrow one of the accusations thrown at Alonso on here, why didn't he simply overtake Jenson? Can be seen as asking for team orders, in the same way "if I slow down would Jenson try and pass me" can be seen as team orders. . .

Absolutely, if lewis wanted to get past jenson then it was up to him to overtake.He wasnt faster enough to overtake but needed the team to be mindfull he was getting held up slightly, so maybe bring his pitstop forward if they can. The accusaations are thrown at Alonso because he clearly did want massa moving out of the way. He'd already met Ferrari management with his 'team' after not having Massa moved aside in Australia.

[vaptin]

I dunno what was said at that meeting after Australia, so can't comment on it,

Lewis may have been asking for a pit stop, but I think that was unlikely, he couldn't afford to pit too early compared to Jenson. Although all this really proves is the old "you can't prove a coded message" argument.

[f1ea]

Sounds like he was implying he wanted Jenson out of the way, or if we borrow one of the accusations thrown at Alonso on here, why didn't he simply overtake Jenson? Can be seen as asking for team orders, in the same way "if I slow down would Jenson try and pass me" can be seen as team orders. . .

Absolutely, if lewis wanted to get past jenson then it was up to him to overtake.He wasnt faster enough to overtake but needed the team to be mindfull he was getting held up slightly, so maybe bring his pitstop forward if they can. The accusaations are thrown at Alonso because he clearly did want massa moving out of the way. He'd already met Ferrari management with his 'team' after not having Massa moved aside in Australia.

[racechick]

Sounds like he was implying he wanted Jenson out of the way, or if we borrow one of the accusations thrown at Alonso on here, why didn't he simply overtake Jenson? Can be seen as asking for team orders, in the same way "if I slow down would Jenson try and pass me" can be seen as team orders. . .

Absolutely, if lewis wanted to get past jenson then it was up to him to overtake.He wasnt faster enough to overtake but needed the team to be mindfull he was getting held up slightly, so maybe bring his pitstop forward if they can. The accusaations are thrown at Alonso because he clearly did want massa moving out of the way. He'd already met Ferrari management with his 'team' after not having Massa moved aside in Australia.

You're right. Alonso wasnt interested in having Massa moved aside and there never was a meeting between ferrari and Alonso's management after Australia. Alonso is happy to fight fairly with his team mate and the guilty verdict for cheating with team orders well, dont know what happened there. You're right, its all Dont know how I missed it.

[smokin]

Sounds like he was implying he wanted Jenson out of the way, or if we borrow one of the accusations thrown at Alonso on here, why didn't he simply overtake Jenson? Can be seen as asking for team orders, in the same way "if I slow down would Jenson try and pass me" can be seen as team orders. . .

Absolutely, if lewis wanted to get past jenson then it was up to him to overtake.He wasnt faster enough to overtake but needed the team to be mindfull he was getting held up slightly, so maybe bring his pitstop forward if they can. The accusaations are thrown at Alonso because he clearly did want massa moving out of the way. He'd already met Ferrari management with his 'team' after not having Massa moved aside in Australia.

You're right. Alonso wasnt interested in having Massa moved aside and there never was a meeting between ferrari and Alonso's management after Australia. Alonso is happy to fight fairly with his team mate and the guilty verdict for cheating with team orders well, dont know what happened there. You're right, its all Dont know how I missed it.

[f1ea]

Absolutely, if lewis wanted to get past jenson then it was up to him to overtake.He wasnt faster enough to overtake but needed the team to be mindfull he was getting held up slightly, so maybe bring his pitstop forward if they can. The accusaations are thrown at Alonso because he clearly did want massa moving out of the way. He'd already met Ferrari management with his 'team' after not having Massa moved aside in Australia.[/quote]

exhibit A:

He wasnt faster enough to overtake but needed the team to be mindfull he was getting held up slightly

He needed the team to be mindful he was getting held up slightly...
#1 why? the team had no other way of knowing?
#2 According to the "group" if Alonso was indeed faster than Massa, he should have been able to overtake him. In this case, Lewis being held up ACCORDING TO HIM, means Lewis was faster. How come he didn't overtake him?? He was faster, wasn't he? why did he need the team to do anyting to pass a slower car??

exhibit B:

so maybe bring his pitstop forward if they can.

Reeeeeaalllyy??
So what Mclaren did was... allow Jenson to come up behind Lewis anyways.... Hmmmm doesnt make sense. Why go trhough all that trouble, to simply come behind one car, when everyone else was miles behind ?? ie Jenson could have stopped right when everyone else did... change for softs.... get an extra pit stop, for more softs... and still finish behind Lewis and in front of everybody else. So why keep him longer, to come out JUST behind Lewis??

I... don't... get... it.

But i'm engineer-minded... i like my 2+2= 4.
So, please tell me there's a nice Mark Hugues article explaining that strategy above.

The accusations are thrown at Alonso because he clearly did want massa moving out of the way.

Exactly! Makes sense though... doesnt it?
But... you're saying THIS is differente from what the other guy did, because... "he clearly did want massa moving out of the way".
Alert! you are speculating on what EITHER wanted. The wordings were VERY simmilar... you are basing the BIG difference in your assumption of what they wanted... sorry. Again, i'm having trouble with this 2+2's.......

Exhibit C:

He'd already met Ferrari management with his 'team' after not having Massa moved aside in Australia

BS. Because you dont know. No idea what they spoke about.

[bud]

change for softs.... get an extra pit stop, for more softs...

not sure that he would have been able to build a 20+ second lead in the laps he had left to make a 2 stop work.

[billindenver]

The press know, accept and agree that all teams have team orders...some are being a bit more secretive about it than others. There really are only 4 or 5 people on the planet who believe that McLaren don't use team orders like everyone else...it's simply amazing that they all post in here. Perhaps years of being bittch slapped for cheating over and over again has taught McLaren that being a little less obvious is a good thing. Massa and his radio flunky should lose their jobs for how they handled that position swap...or the team should pull the 100k wrist slap from their salaries.

Either way the season is winding down...and if by some miracle Jenson ends up in front of Lewis (as just happened), I'm sure the team will find some way of slowing him down without it being as obvious as Ferrari's screw up. Maybe they'll leave him out on bad tires or something....oh....uh...hmm.