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[operaman]

How come RBR is left out of those reported numbers? A GP attendance anywhere outside of Monza will show you just as many, if not more Red Bull gear that any other team regalia.

You think so? When I was at the Canadian GP the split was about 50% Ferrari, 30% McLaren and 20% everybody else.

Mclaren you are kidding me!!!! when? cant have been last year because Lewis wasnt in McLaren then!! At Silverstone there was a HUGE amount of Mercedes!

'Twas 2010 Sweetie.

I rest my case!

I think I will just rest. Seriously, Ferrari fans are the only ones I have ever encountered that seem to support the team through good and bad seasons, and driver changes. Other teams not so much.

[What's Burning?]

A lot has changed since 2010, or to put it another way, not much has changed since 2010 with one team winning everything four years straight. That's a lot of team gear sold since then. I was in Montreal for 2011 and 2013, would love to go again this year but so much is up in the air.

[sagi58]

Funny that, only one side has come up with a blanket statement, and the same side is unable to come up with any meaningful evidence to prove a side.

All we have had is 'this is what I think' but no evidence whatsoever to support the original motion that to suggest a driver - Lewis, can be more commercially 'big' (in demand, followed, tracked, clicked on,) than a team is delusional - that's a blanket statement

zurich_allen provided more than enough support in the shape of true scientific data gathering.
You may want to take a longer look at the authenticity of that information!

By the way, Congratulations are in order!! Your argument exponentially developed, since your original simplistic blanket proclamation:

This jumping into and out of "love" with teams / drivers / team principals / engineers
is so much like wathcing a soap opera and the lead actors jumping into and out of bed
with each of the other actors!! It's almost incestuous, for pity's sake!!

A bit like Todt - Domenically, Kimi -Alonso - Kimi, Bryne out then in - Pat fry loved then demoted,

Best to follow the sportsmen - the drivers and not the team

Lewis for example is bigger than a team as he has his own engineer (paddy) and his own loyal supporters who follow him to any team he chooses to use their product

So with Lewis it's like a package deal, his fans come with him. And teams are just the providers of kit

Isn't it grand that other forum members can have a different opinion, thus allowing for this growth to occur!!

[sagi58]

Just goes to show how ignorant it is to only see what one is wanting to see all the time

Ok so you now admit Lewis is bigger than a team? You now accept the concept of a driver being bigger than a team?
We can now proceed up the grid, do you think he is bigger than Marrussia, yes or no? If not where's the rationale?

Try not to cop out please

I'm ignorant? Well, thank you, very much!
Good thing that you don't engage in offending fellow members, eh?

[sagi58]

How come RBR is left out of those reported numbers? A GP attendance anywhere outside of Monza will show you just as many, if not more Red Bull gear that any other team regalia.

You think so? When I was at the Canadian GP the split was about 50% Ferrari, 30% McLaren and 20% everybody else.

Do you think it might be an indicator of the loyalty of F1 fans to the memory of Canadian-born Villeneuve or "just" marketing success?

[sagi58]

...Seriously, Ferrari fans are the only ones I have ever encountered that seem to support the team through good and bad seasons, and driver changes. Other teams not so much.

Why should that be a "negative" thing?

[Jabberwocky]

I follow all the drivers on Twitter, what does that mean

Sent using NCC-1701

[sagi58]

I follow all the drivers on Twitter, what does that mean

That you know what they're tweeting about?

[CookinFlat6]

Funny that, only one side has come up with a blanket statement, and the same side is unable to come up with any meaningful evidence to prove a side.

All we have had is 'this is what I think' but no evidence whatsoever to support the original motion that to suggest a driver - Lewis, can be more commercially 'big' (in demand, followed, tracked, clicked on,) than a team is delusional - that's a blanket statement

zurich_allen provided more than enough support in the shape of true scientific data gathering.
You may want to take a longer look at the authenticity of that information!

By the way, Congratulations are in order!! Your argument exponentially developed, since your original simplistic blanket proclamation:

This jumping into and out of "love" with teams / drivers / team principals / engineers
is so much like wathcing a soap opera and the lead actors jumping into and out of bed
with each of the other actors!! It's almost incestuous, for pity's sake!!

A bit like Todt - Domenically, Kimi -Alonso - Kimi, Bryne out then in - Pat fry loved then demoted,

Best to follow the sportsmen - the drivers and not the team

Lewis for example is bigger than a team as he has his own engineer (paddy) and his own loyal supporters who follow him to any team he chooses to use their product

So with Lewis it's like a package deal, his fans come with him. And teams are just the providers of kit

Isn't it grand that other forum members can have a different opinion, thus allowing for this growth to occur!!

is that the best blah blah you got left?

Zurichs 4 year old survey of fans DOES NOT compare team following with driver following, only seperate surveys for teams and drivers

And it concludes that social media is a better way to gauge true fan interest



Twits are a microcosm of total support. Therefore they give is an idea of how much more interest there is in the drivers than the teams. They are a representation of distribution

So Lewis is more popular than HRT, but not the another team - show us by using Zurichs data



I was hoping you would not cop out , Lewis has more followers than some teams Sagi58, deal with it, Max Chiltern doesn't , twitter suggests this, but anyone with a brain can work it out without twitter
Next time someone says x, think before you jump in, it's getting boring having to correct the amount of mistakes you make in your eagerness to impose your opinions

[sagi58]

In regards to F1 the Social Media may be seen as a microcosm of SOME F1 fans, it does
NOT provide scientific evidence, because there are no controls on who each "twit" is.
For example, you could easily have 100 accounts on Twitter and follow Hamilton 100
times and there is no way that anyone would know. Not even an IP address is of
much use today with all the free WIFI available pretty well anywhere you go!! There
is also the F1 fan/aficionado, who may follow every one of the drivers, such as our
very own Jabberwocky, which doesn't really give a clear indication of who their "one"
favourite driver is.

Out of curiousity, when you signed up for your Twitter account, were you asked to
complete information about what demographic you fall into? Because if you did, then
Twitter may be able to provide that sort of data. Well, they can provide the data
submitted; but, there is no way of knowing if people have lied about themselves.

I did a quick Google search to find out how many "Followers" Ferrari has and noted
that not only does Ferrari have their own ""official"" Twitter, there are also countless
Twitter accounts/ Forums/ Facebook pages that are Ferrari related. Again, there is
no way to scientifically take into consideration that type of Social Media (i.e. do fans
belong to more than one, do they have more than one account, etc).

Are SOME drivers more popular than SOME teams, sure. So what? As spanky pointed
out, without being employed by whatever team they are driving for, MOST of these
drivers (as pedestrians) would not have the same following. I'm betting that within
the five years of any the more popular drivers leaving the sport ALTOGETHER, they
themselves won't even bother with it. In fact, some drivers today don't bother with it.

You'll note, I got through my own contribution here, without resorting to being sarcastic
or name-calling. If you aren't able to follow suit, please be advised that this will be the
last response you'll get from me on this topic.

By the way, the team that conducted that four-year-old survey would have had no way
of knowing what Social Media would evolve into! But, that's another thread.

[What's Burning?]

[youtube]ax4IUgMq0Aw[/youtube]

[sagi58]

[CookinFlat6]

Are SOME drivers more popular than SOME teams, sure. So what?

I wish you had understood that when responding to my original comment that to his followers Lewis was bigger than a team. Would have saved yourself a lot of grief

Each time you jump in on an opinion I make I have to correct your mistake, especially when you don't read the quote or link properly and jump in to 'correct' the opinion. Each time you say 'sorry' or 'point taken' after several pages of evasive tactics

Ferrari or McLaren and maybe Merc may have enough history to command a huge following. Through F1 history drivers like Fabgio senna Gilles Lewis will command more followers than many other teams

I could have said the same about Alonso - he is bigger than a few teams. You would have not objected, but when it's Lewis mentioned the knee jerk 'you must be delusional' you must be irrational.

Small hint for next time, I don't write things I cannot back up till the cows come home - that's the idea of been on a forum, a tasty debate

[sagi58]

Small hint for next time, I don't write things I cannot back up till the cows come home - that's the idea of been on a forum, a tasty debate

Let me return the favour, if you are CLEAR when making your comments, there wouldn't be the need to seek clarification,
which you then use as a board to dive into another argument, just for the sake of waiting for those cows to come home.

This conversation, for ME, had nothing to do with Hamilton / Alonso / Marussia, etc, it was a discussion about the use
of statistics based on a social media, which can't be scientifically gathered and proven. So, if in your original comment
you had Instead of using the word """"a"""" you'd said """"some"""" teams, I still would have questioned the methodology.

Lewis for example is bigger than a team as he has his own engineer (paddy) and his own loyal supporters who follow him to any team he chooses to use their product

p.s. be wary of the bull, who's usually full of

[CookinFlat6]

Oh so you are now blaming semantics to excuse the lack of grace involved in dismissing someone's opinion as delusional?

Oh so you were discussing the use of social media statistics and not Lewis or Ferrari?

Did you not say Zurichs stats were scientific and therefore valid? When you obviously did not even read the article?

Sounds like creating an argument just for the sake of it

The first rule when in a hole is to stop digging