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[LRW]

Yeah, breaking seals on his gearbox is really supporting your driver.

Actually, I thought that was a pretty ingenious move!!

So, let me ask you this:

If YOU were underperforming at work, regardless of how many favours you were asked for,
how many chances would you get? Sure, let's say you pull up your socks and improve; but,
then fall back again. How long would it be before you were shown the door?

So let me ask YOU this. How do you know what FMs objectives are, and if he is under performing. You don't. So your analogy is pointless.

[andrew]

Is Massa under-performing or is he making the best of a bad and difficult situation?

[sagi58]

Yeah, breaking seals on his gearbox is really supporting your driver.

Actually, I thought that was a pretty ingenious move!!

So, let me ask you this:

If YOU were underperforming at work, regardless of how many favours you were asked for,
how many chances would you get? Sure, let's say you pull up your socks and improve; but,
then fall back again. How long would it be before you were shown the door?

So let me ask YOU this. How do you know what FMs objectives are, and if he is under performing. You don't. So your analogy is pointless.

Considering his job, it would be safe to assume his primary objective is to score as
many points as he can for the team who is paying his salary, in this case, Ferrari.
Considering their philosophy on team orders, it's also safe to assume that one of the
expectations would be to follow any directive given by the team.

[sagi58]

Is Massa under-performing or is he making the best of a bad and difficult situation?

If you're referring to the cars he has driven this past few years, then Alonso is doing the same thing with much better results.
If you're referring to Alonso, I would suggest to you that Massa has always known his place in the team hierarchy!
If either "situation" was intolerable, I would also suggest he could have moved, considering his one-year contracts.

[LRW]

Is Massa under-performing or is he making the best of a bad and difficult situation?

If you're referring to the cars he has driven this past few years, then Alonso is doing the same thing with much better results.
If you're referring to Alonso, I would suggest to you that Massa has always known his place in the team hierarchy!
If either "situation" was intolerable, I would also suggest he could have moved, considering his one-year contracts.

THIS I totally agree with. I think Massa knows he is onto a good thing where he is, is happy to accept big $$ for little pressure, and happy being a No.2 driver.

[sagi58]

... I think Massa knows he is onto a good thing where he is, is happy to accept big $$ for little pressure, and happy being a No.2 driver.

To each his own, eh?

[ptiberio]

Bit harsh on Massa.

Perhaps if the team would support him for once he'd be doing better.

How much more support do you want? They pay him, provide garage space for his posse, let him wear the drivers suit of Ferrari.

Maybe if Massa spent some time at the factory during the week supporting the team verus taking the first flight back to Brazil he would feel the love. Nando flys back to the factory virtually after every race to download with his engineers and team plus to show support for the team at the factory. Massa books the earliest ticket back to Brazil with his posse.

[Hammer278]

I rate Ferrari A+ since I'm glad they're not threatening to give Alonso another WDC this year.

Don't count us out, just yet!!
After all, he who laughs last, laughs best!!

I prefer to laugh from mid season onwards till the end instead of waiting for the end.

[andrew]

Bit harsh on Massa.

Perhaps if the team would support him for once he'd be doing better.

How much more support do you want? They pay him, provide garage space for his posse, let him wear the drivers suit of Ferrari.

Maybe if Massa spent some time at the factory during the week supporting the team verus taking the first flight back to Brazil he would feel the love. Nando flys back to the factory virtually after every race to download with his engineers and team plus to show support for the team at the factory. Massa books the earliest ticket back to Brazil with his posse.

The guy has been one of the most loyal drivers Ferrari have ever had. Even Barrichello was given a win from time to time but Massa gets absolutely nothing from them.

Do you have anything to back-up your claim of Massa jetting off home at the earliest opportunity or are you just trying to big-up Alonso? If a driver did behave like that I am pretty sure Ferrari would show him the door pretty quick.

[sagi58]

The guy has been one of the most loyal drivers Ferrari have ever had. Even Barrichello was given a win from time to time but Massa gets absolutely nothing from them...

Not sure I agree with that... or that Kimi would, either...
I doubt Barrichello came as close as Massa did to a WDC!!

[andrew]

The guy has been one of the most loyal drivers Ferrari have ever had. Even Barrichello was given a win from time to time but Massa gets absolutely nothing from them...

Not sure I agree with that... or that Kimi would, either...
I doubt Barrichello came as close as Massa did to a WDC!!

And look what they did to Raikkonen - shoved him out the door for Alonso and his bags of Spanish banking gold.

Of course Barrichello didn't come close to a championship but that is trrelevant. All Barrichello did in his final years at Ferrari was moan about them and Schumacher despite being allowed to win on occasion. Massa has been a proper team player, has rarely complained and he gets nothing in return. It's very sad to see a driver of Massa's quality waste the best years of his F1 career playing 2nd fiddle at Ferrari.

[sagi58]

The guy has been one of the most loyal drivers Ferrari have ever had. Even Barrichello was given a win from time to time but Massa gets absolutely nothing from them...

Not sure I agree with that... or that Kimi would, either...
I doubt Barrichello came as close as Massa did to a WDC!!

And look what they did to Raikkonen - shoved him out the door for Alonso and his bags of Spanish banking gold.

Of course Barrichello didn't come close to a championship but that is trrelevant. All Barrichello did in his final years at Ferrari was moan about them and Schumacher despite being allowed to win on occasion. Massa has been a proper team player, has rarely complained and he gets nothing in return. It's very sad to see a driver of Massa's quality waste the best years of his F1 career playing 2nd fiddle at Ferrari.

I meant that Kimi would argue with you that Massa wasn't "given" anything or that he suffered the whole time he's been at Ferrari!

You brought Barrichello into the conversation, so it was relevant to compare Massa's accomplishment (quasi-WDC) to his.

Massa wasn't hoodwinked into being the #2 driver, which tells me he's fine with it. Unless, he's told you differently?

As for it being sad that he's wasting his best years, sometimes our best just isn't enough.

[andrew]

You'd argue black was white wouldn't you where Ferrari are concerned?

[Jabberwocky]

The only reason massa got so close to the championship is because Kimi could not be bothered. The only time schumacher had an off year at ferrari was in 99. Irvine ran the championship to the end (even if some people believe that Ferrari bulked him so the Schumacher would be the golden boy the following year) Rubens was always up against a Schumacher running like a machine in the garage next to him.

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[sagi58]

You'd argue black was white wouldn't you where Ferrari are concerned?

With all the grey areas, it's a pretty safe bet!!