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[racechick]

I was watching the SingGP again and just noticed something at the start, which made me think of this thread.

I guess my view has been just been re-enforced enough for me to post thoughts now.

In my opinion, Jenson is the better driver.

I believe this because it is my opinion that Jenson is and has been deferring to Lewis most of the year.

The start of Singapore really brought this home to me.

To start with, here is video of the start:-
http://www.hotshare.net/en/file/307091-436896547a.html

If you watch, Jenson absolutely blitzes Lewis, he gets clearly in front and they have both moved to the clean side, when inexplicably, Jenson almost stops way before he needs to, and simply lets Lewis pass. Almost as though he's made his point, he could have beaten him, then drops back behind him.

As if to reinforce how early Jenson backed out and deferred to Lewis, have a look, just behind them, at Kubica and Barichello (I believe) watch how Kubica, who never gets as far ahead of Barichello as Jenson is ahead of Lewis before turn-1, yet Kubica pushes and keeps his line into turn-1 beside Barichello. This proves drivers could race for the position at that point on the track, but Jenson, for some reason just stops and lets Lewis pass.

I also went back and had a look at the footage of when Turkey where Jenson passed Lewis, followed by the fuel critical infamous comment and I couldn't believe how wide Jenson was on that corner and how little speed he had.

Jenson has been very intelligent knowing his constraints within the team. His pit strategies gave him two wins and, his F-Duct choice at Monza ended out being quite brilliant.

Anyway, it just makes me think that given that Jenson is being so generous to Lewis, and yet he is on almost the same points, I think it makes each of his points earned this year worth some sort of bonus.

I think you see what you want to see. Jenson will walk if he gets unequal treatment.

[myownalias]

You do have to admit that Jenson got quite a considerable jump on Lewis off the start then suddenly backed right out of the throttle; although I believe that Jenson was being cautious more than any sort of team directive. This is the big issue with Jenson in my opinion; he is nowhere near aggressive enough to compete with the likes of Mark, Fernando, Lewis and Sebastian in my opinion, he needs to take more risks if he wants to clinch a second world drivers title!

[The Ram]

The thing is though, even if Button exited the first turn in front of Hamilton, all he would have done is hold him up. Hamilton had the pace on Button in Singapore. Hamilton was 6 seconds ahead after 9 or so laps. On average He was 0.3 seconds a lap faster. It was almost like his qualifying pace advantage translates directly into race pace.

[spankyham]

The thing is though, even if Button exited the first turn in front of Hamilton, all he would have done is hold him up. Hamilton had the pace on Button in Singapore. Hamilton was 6 seconds ahead after 9 or so laps. On average He was 0.3 seconds a lap faster. It was almost like his qualifying pace advantage translates directly into race pace.

Your assessment that Lewis was faster is inaccurate. If you compare the 10 laps leading up to their pit stops and then compare their pit lap and the next lap (which takes us up to the safety car) Jenson was clearly faster. Here is the comparison showing which driver was faster on the relevant lap:-
Lap # Faster-Driver
Lap 19 Button
Lap 20 Hamilton
Lap 21 Button
Lap 22 Button
Lap 23 Button
Lap 24 Button
Lap 25 Hamilton
Lap 26 Hamilton
Lap 27 Button
Pit-Lap Button (adjusted for actual pit stoppage time)
Pit-Out-Lap Button

As you can see, Jenson was clearly the faster of the two drivers leading up to the SC and then Lewis accident.

Based on these times, had Jenson been allowed to complete the pass he had all but finished before turn-1 at the start, he probably would have been able to gap Mark enough to get 3rd and have another podium.

[nish2280]

I was watching the SingGP again and just noticed something at the start, which made me think of this thread.

I guess my view has been just been re-enforced enough for me to post thoughts now.

In my opinion, Jenson is the better driver.

I believe this because it is my opinion that Jenson is and has been deferring to Lewis most of the year.

The start of Singapore really brought this home to me.

To start with, here is video of the start:-
http://www.hotshare.net/en/file/307091-436896547a.html

If you watch, Jenson absolutely blitzes Lewis, he gets clearly in front and they have both moved to the clean side, when inexplicably, Jenson almost stops way before he needs to, and simply lets Lewis pass. Almost as though he's made his point, he could have beaten him, then drops back behind him.

As if to reinforce how early Jenson backed out and deferred to Lewis, have a look, just behind them, at Kubica and Barichello (I believe) watch how Kubica, who never gets as far ahead of Barichello as Jenson is ahead of Lewis before turn-1, yet Kubica pushes and keeps his line into turn-1 beside Barichello. This proves drivers could race for the position at that point on the track, but Jenson, for some reason just stops and lets Lewis pass.

I also went back and had a look at the footage of when Turkey where Jenson passed Lewis, followed by the fuel critical infamous comment and I couldn't believe how wide Jenson was on that corner and how little speed he had.

Jenson has been very intelligent knowing his constraints within the team. His pit strategies gave him two wins and, his F-Duct choice at Monza ended out being quite brilliant.

Anyway, it just makes me think that given that Jenson is being so generous to Lewis, and yet he is on almost the same points, I think it makes each of his points earned this year worth some sort of bonus.

I think you see what you want to see. Jenson will walk if he gets unequal treatment.

I think you see what you want to see. Jenson hasnt walked after getting unequal treatment.

[Hexagram]

Jenson is finishing stronger than Hamilton this year. Consistency is key and Button has plenty of it.

[Hammer278]

If 'finishing stronger' means driving around the circuit and settling for some points (while disregarding the chase for the WDC) I am glad Lewis isn't any part of that.

[Hexagram]

If 'finishing stronger' means driving around the circuit and settling for some points (while disregarding the chase for the WDC) I am glad Lewis isn't any part of that.

Monza from Jenson was?

[What's Burning?]

I was watching the SingGP again and just noticed something at the start, which made me think of this thread.

I guess my view has been just been re-enforced enough for me to post thoughts now.

In my opinion, Jenson is the better driver.

I believe this because it is my opinion that Jenson is and has been deferring to Lewis most of the year.

The start of Singapore really brought this home to me.

To start with, here is video of the start:-
http://www.hotshare.net/en/file/307091-436896547a.html

If you watch, Jenson absolutely blitzes Lewis, he gets clearly in front and they have both moved to the clean side, when inexplicably, Jenson almost stops way before he needs to, and simply lets Lewis pass. Almost as though he's made his point, he could have beaten him, then drops back behind him.

As if to reinforce how early Jenson backed out and deferred to Lewis, have a look, just behind them, at Kubica and Barichello (I believe) watch how Kubica, who never gets as far ahead of Barichello as Jenson is ahead of Lewis before turn-1, yet Kubica pushes and keeps his line into turn-1 beside Barichello. This proves drivers could race for the position at that point on the track, but Jenson, for some reason just stops and lets Lewis pass.

I also went back and had a look at the footage of when Turkey where Jenson passed Lewis, followed by the fuel critical infamous comment and I couldn't believe how wide Jenson was on that corner and how little speed he had.

Jenson has been very intelligent knowing his constraints within the team. His pit strategies gave him two wins and, his F-Duct choice at Monza ended out being quite brilliant.

Anyway, it just makes me think that given that Jenson is being so generous to Lewis, and yet he is on almost the same points, I think it makes each of his points earned this year worth some sort of bonus.

Are you saying he's good enough to drive for Ferrari?

[FRAFPDD]

I was watching the SingGP again and just noticed something at the start, which made me think of this thread.

I guess my view has been just been re-enforced enough for me to post thoughts now.

In my opinion, Jenson is the better driver.

I believe this because it is my opinion that Jenson is and has been deferring to Lewis most of the year.

The start of Singapore really brought this home to me.

To start with, here is video of the start:-
http://www.hotshare.net/en/file/307091-436896547a.html

If you watch, Jenson absolutely blitzes Lewis, he gets clearly in front and they have both moved to the clean side, when inexplicably, Jenson almost stops way before he needs to, and simply lets Lewis pass. Almost as though he's made his point, he could have beaten him, then drops back behind him.

As if to reinforce how early Jenson backed out and deferred to Lewis, have a look, just behind them, at Kubica and Barichello (I believe) watch how Kubica, who never gets as far ahead of Barichello as Jenson is ahead of Lewis before turn-1, yet Kubica pushes and keeps his line into turn-1 beside Barichello. This proves drivers could race for the position at that point on the track, but Jenson, for some reason just stops and lets Lewis pass.

I also went back and had a look at the footage of when Turkey where Jenson passed Lewis, followed by the fuel critical infamous comment and I couldn't believe how wide Jenson was on that corner and how little speed he had.

Jenson has been very intelligent knowing his constraints within the team. His pit strategies gave him two wins and, his F-Duct choice at Monza ended out being quite brilliant.

Anyway, it just makes me think that given that Jenson is being so generous to Lewis, and yet he is on almost the same points, I think it makes each of his points earned this year worth some sort of bonus.

Are you saying he's good enough to drive for Ferrari?

Post of the friggin year my friend, shows exactly how stupid the Ferrari double-standard hypocrites are, even if Jenson was helping Lewis, its only as equally bad as Massa helping Alonso? And he isnt. Nice to see that they are so desperate for a valid dig at Hamilton they will milk a DNF from him bone dry huh? lol. two Dnf's in a row must be like winning the euromillions for them, its just a shame at what the next 10 plus years of F1 has in store for any Anti-Lewis's really....hell he isnt totally out of this years!

[Hammer278]

The criticism is hilarious to be honest. I bet no one was banking on 2 DNFs in a row from Lewis and now they're on top of the world for it.

Especially the post by the guy who says he has 'concluded' that Button is definitely a better driver than Lewis. This after Lewis not reaching the finish line 4 times this season compared to Button's 2, and still ahead in the WDC. The desperation is reaching new heights.

[vaptin]

Get your blood pressure checked, I have a feeling you might explode, he didn't exactly criticise the idea that Button gave way to Hamilton because of team orders (which I don't think happened anyway), so where's the hypocrisy?

Not only that, but Massa hardly let Alonso through at the start in Monza now did he?

Heck I have a third one, the situations with Alonso-Massa and Lewis-Jenson are different, so even if he makes a criticism it's only if he views the situations as directly comparable that he'll become a hypocrite.

[FRAFPDD]

The criticism is hilarious to be honest. I bet no one was banking on 2 DNFs in a row from Lewis and now they're on top of the world for it.

Especially the post by the guy who says he has 'concluded' that Button is definitely a better driver than Lewis. This after Lewis not reaching the finish line 4 times this season compared to Button's 2, and still ahead in the WDC. The desperation is reaching new heights.

Look, i can take it like an absolute slag if my driver is on the recieving end, mainly cause it doesnt usually happen with LewHam. So its not about not being able to take it like theyd all suggest, im just saying it gives me mega lols to see the excitement of a rare muck up from him, puncture in Spain, engine in hungary, punted in australia, bad pit decision in australia, his own fault in monza, punted off in a racing incident in singapore, still within a win of mark webber in a car that is superhuman, theres only one Hamilton.

[vaptin]

The criticism is hilarious to be honest. I bet no one was banking on 2 DNFs in a row from Lewis and now they're on top of the world for it.

Especially the post by the guy who says he has 'concluded' that Button is definitely a better driver than Lewis. This after Lewis not reaching the finish line 4 times this season compared to Button's 2, and still ahead in the WDC. The desperation is reaching new heights.

Look, i can take it like an absolute slag if my driver is on the recieving end, mainly cause it doesnt usually happen with LewHam. So its not about not being able to take it like theyd all suggest, im just saying it gives me mega lols to see the excitement of a rare muck up from him, puncture in Spain, engine in hungary, punted in australia, bad pit decision in australia, his own fault in monza, punted off in a racing incident in singapore, still within a win of mark webber in a car that is superhuman, theres only one Hamilton.

Bit harsh to Ant and his family

You Hamilton fanboys/girls get excited a lot of the time (no, not always justifiably), so maybe its only fair if the haters do the same.

[FRAFPDD]

The criticism is hilarious to be honest. I bet no one was banking on 2 DNFs in a row from Lewis and now they're on top of the world for it.

Especially the post by the guy who says he has 'concluded' that Button is definitely a better driver than Lewis. This after Lewis not reaching the finish line 4 times this season compared to Button's 2, and still ahead in the WDC. The desperation is reaching new heights.

Look, i can take it like an absolute slag if my driver is on the recieving end, mainly cause it doesnt usually happen with LewHam. So its not about not being able to take it like theyd all suggest, im just saying it gives me mega lols to see the excitement of a rare muck up from him, puncture in Spain, engine in hungary, punted in australia, bad pit decision in australia, his own fault in monza, punted off in a racing incident in singapore, still within a win of mark webber in a car that is superhuman, theres only one Hamilton.

Bit harsh to Ant and his family

You Hamilton fanboys/girls get excited a lot of the time (no, not always justifiably), so maybe its only fair if the haters do the same.

Dont, even try and tell me "we" (you implied im a fanboy evne though i own no hammmy specs) are as bad as "you" guys, dont even try it, it doesnt compare in any dimension you try put it in, i dont like Hamilton fanboys more then Alonso ones cause they give me a bad name as a Hamilton fan, but they are miles more objective then most of "you" i find it hard to find an opinion on Hamilton from Ferrari fans that doesnt highlight his race, nationality or that Massa is the true 2008 champion (thank AKR for that one) .Its stereotypical and wrong of me to do so but i find it hard to take Alonso/Ferrari fans seriously knowing how much Ferrari Red propaganda that youve been subjected to. That said it is not impossible to find decent fans of Nando;s, it just takes an awful lot of searching.