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[vaptin]

Hmm, yeah Jenson was miffed, he had just lost the lead, but I don't know what he thought once he had seen all the data and talked to the team in the debriefing.

He might have made it work, but looking at the information I have, it looked like the best decision Mclaren could make, it wasn't a wet race or anything, so trying to outwit Ferrari in stragety would've been pretty hard.

I think the problems with tyres wearing out/ Alonso pitting earlier and going faster, were looking worse than Jenson pitting earlier on the hard tyres himself. He also wasn't fast enough to pull out much of a gap on Alonso, even in the dirty air.

[racechick]

The pit stop was mighty close. A few laps more may have swung it the other way. I think whats clear is that the ferrari was the faster car. It was only Jenson's flawless driving that kept it behind.

[vaptin]

The pit stop was mighty close. A few laps more may have swung it the other way. I think whats clear is that the ferrari was the faster car. It was only Jenson's flawless driving that kept it behind.

You mean if Jenson stayed out a few more laps? I suppose that depends on whose tyres were in a worse shape and being used up faster, Jenson's or Alonso's.

[racechick]

The pit stop was mighty close. A few laps more may have swung it the other way. I think whats clear is that the ferrari was the faster car. It was only Jenson's flawless driving that kept it behind.

You mean if Jenson stayed out a few more laps? I suppose that depends on whose tyres were in a worse shape and being used up faster, Jenson's or Alonso's.

Yeah thats what I meant, if Jenson had stayed out longer. Guess we'll never know how it would have panned out.

[smokin]

The pit stop was mighty close. A few laps more may have swung it the other way. I think whats clear is that the ferrari was the faster car. It was only Jenson's flawless driving that kept it behind.

And the stronger. Minor tap early on from Alonso left the Ferrari unscathed while bits flew off the McClaren. Alonso was also T-boned at Spa and yet drove away without apparent damage.

Contact is unavoidable in F1, especially when the cars are close at the start. A message to the rest to build stronger cars?

(Sorry - off topic, I know)

[nish2280]

The pit stop was mighty close. A few laps more may have swung it the other way. I think whats clear is that the ferrari was the faster car. It was only Jenson's flawless driving that kept it behind.

And the stronger. Minor tap early on from Alonso left the Ferrari unscathed while bits flew off the McClaren. Alonso was also T-boned at Spa and yet drove away without apparent damage.

Contact is unavoidable in F1, especially when the cars are close at the start. A message to the rest to build stronger cars?

(Sorry - off topic, I know)

The bit about Hammo ramming himself into Massa can be put down to physics because the wheel is attached via support and suspension whereas the side of Massa's car is well..The side of the car and would result of a loss of grip rather than penetration.

But the Ferrari does seem to be stronger as seen when Vettel's T-Bone on Jenson had much dire effects than that of Barrichelo on Alonso.

[texasmr2]

Wrong place wrong time just a simple racing incident for Hammy. Jens put up a great fight and should be commended for his performance this year and he and Lewis seem to make for a great pairing.

[Robert12010]

Wrong place wrong time just a simple racing incident for Hammy. Jens put up a great fight and should be commended for his performance this year and he and Lewis seem to make for a great pairing.

they certainly make a great team and arent just showing that when their on tv!

[spankyham]

I was watching the SingGP again and just noticed something at the start, which made me think of this thread.

I guess my view has been just been re-enforced enough for me to post thoughts now.

In my opinion, Jenson is the better driver.

I believe this because it is my opinion that Jenson is and has been deferring to Lewis most of the year.

The start of Singapore really brought this home to me.

To start with, here is video of the start:-
http://www.hotshare.net/en/file/307091-436896547a.html

If you watch, Jenson absolutely blitzes Lewis, he gets clearly in front and they have both moved to the clean side, when inexplicably, Jenson almost stops way before he needs to, and simply lets Lewis pass. Almost as though he's made his point, he could have beaten him, then drops back behind him.

As if to reinforce how early Jenson backed out and deferred to Lewis, have a look, just behind them, at Kubica and Barichello (I believe) watch how Kubica, who never gets as far ahead of Barichello as Jenson is ahead of Lewis before turn-1, yet Kubica pushes and keeps his line into turn-1 beside Barichello. This proves drivers could race for the position at that point on the track, but Jenson, for some reason just stops and lets Lewis pass.

I also went back and had a look at the footage of when Turkey where Jenson passed Lewis, followed by the fuel critical infamous comment and I couldn't believe how wide Jenson was on that corner and how little speed he had.

Jenson has been very intelligent knowing his constraints within the team. His pit strategies gave him two wins and, his F-Duct choice at Monza ended out being quite brilliant.

Anyway, it just makes me think that given that Jenson is being so generous to Lewis, and yet he is on almost the same points, I think it makes each of his points earned this year worth some sort of bonus.

[Hammer278]

If you watch, Jenson absolutely blitzes Lewis, he gets clearly in front and they have both moved to the clean side, when inexplicably, Jenson almost stops way before he needs to, and simply lets Lewis pass. Almost as though he's made his point, he could have beaten him, then drops back behind him.

As if to reinforce how early Jenson backed out and deferred to Lewis, have a look, just behind them, at Kubica and Barichello (I believe) watch how Kubica, who never gets as far ahead of Barichello as Jenson is ahead of Lewis before turn-1, yet Kubica pushes and keeps his line into turn-1 beside Barichello. This proves drivers could race for the position at that point on the track, but Jenson, for some reason just stops and lets Lewis pass.

I also went back and had a look at the footage of when Turkey where Jenson passed Lewis, followed by the fuel critical infamous comment and I couldn't believe how wide Jenson was on that corner and how little speed he had.

Jenson has been very intelligent knowing his constraints within the team. His pit strategies gave him two wins and, his F-Duct choice at Monza ended out being quite brilliant.

Anyway, it just makes me think that given that Jenson is being so generous to Lewis, and yet he is on almost the same points, I think it makes each of his points earned this year worth some sort of bonus.

I was paying special attention to this as well as I was hoping Lewis would jump Vettel at the start. But to my dismay Jenson was side by side almost immediately and it looked like he was going to pass him.

Then, as you say he backed down when both of them went for the tight 1st corner. I was pleased but not surprised. This is what Jenson is, Mr Hold Station, oops 2 in one corner nevermind I'll think of the long game. Which is intelligent, and helps him finish races.

Lewis is the ballsout racer, and he showed it again against Webber. It's this attitude, like it or not, which provides outside chances of WDCs when you have a car which is inferior to the competition. He's not thinking about Jenson or whoever, he's thinking of the WDC and winning races because, let's face it, both McLaren drivers need to win a couple more races to have a good CHANCE of the WDC.

Lewis has had DOUBLE the retirements, and still ahead in the WDC compared to Jenson. From this, if you conclude Jenson is the better driver, God be with you.

[vaptin]

Jenson had Lewis at the start, no idea why he braked so damn early, I guess he's taking the "don't take out your team mate rule" quite seriously, I don't think Lewis would've done the same.

[myownalias]

Jenson had Lewis at the start, no idea why he braked so damn early, I guess he's taking the "don't take out your team mate rule" quite seriously, I don't think Lewis would've done the same.

Given Lewis' later crop on Webber, it was probably the best idea, I believe McLaren screwed both drivers races really, they needed to pit the two drivers sooner as soon as they saw that Webber was catching fast, it was that delay in pitting that cost Jenson and Lewis!

[vaptin]

Jenson had Lewis at the start, no idea why he braked so damn early, I guess he's taking the "don't take out your team mate rule" quite seriously, I don't think Lewis would've done the same.

Given Lewis' later crop on Webber, it was probably the best idea, I believe McLaren screwed both drivers races really, they needed to pit the two drivers sooner as soon as they saw that Webber was catching fast, it was that delay in pitting that cost Jenson and Lewis!

Yes, that seemed pretty clear as well, they weren't really "racing" anyone so I can't see why McLaren didn't make the call.

[hounddub]

Given the fact that that Jenson's McLaren lunched it's prime tyres with less than half the laps that the same tyres had on Webber's Red Bull I think that is a huge prediction. The McLaren has a big issue of eating it's rears o high downforce tracks as they have to run it with incredibly stiff suspension.

There is NO WAY the McLaren could have pitted earlier.

[myownalias]

Didn't the McLaren's start the race with the option tyre? which would degrade quicker than the prime tyre. McLaren needed to pit earlier to keep Lewis/Jenson in front of Mark Webber; in Singapore there are very few overtaking places; it would be hard for Mark to overtake the McLarens even of worn tyres!