FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[racechick]

Hmm, slightly tricky, I suppose its much harder to predict the future planning of an f1 team, but still, could be inaccurate. Made up by some source, then others quoted it and snowballed. Was is reported anywhere "reputable?"

Its hard to remember because it was three years ago. I cant remember where I read it. It was quoted this year in autosport by Mark Hughes. He used it to illustrate Hamiltons's speed around the track in China. He used that and a couple of other examples. But Im not sure which issue and Im not good at searching-I will try to find good sources.

[The Ram]

You guys are trying to change the subject I see. A telling sign of imminent defeat
Well since you only just realise that this was a fight that Button cannot win You can jump ship and join us. We all win that way. I mean my heart just can't bear the feeling of pity for the Button's fans after the season is done... All the tears. Lets just all turn into Hamilton fans. How does that sound?

Yeah, believe it or not some of us dicuss things in f1 that are pretty much unrelated to Lewis Hamilton, admittedly it wasn't on topic but I don't think the mods minded, heck the change from the usual drivel here probably stopped them scooping their brains out.

I don't support Jenson, I just don't see why you can't wait until the end of the season (and don't love Lewis as much as you), if I had the inclination I could see what any of you Hamilton fanboys were saying before Monza?

But seriously, support Hamilton, but why not just enjoy f1 as a whole? Why all this venom for Jenson? When he does good in f1, why don't you see that as good?

Actually, I was cheering for him to come second in Monza.
I was looking in the mirror and I saw on my tv that Jenson was going into the pitstop before Alonso and I thought, "that's good, that's good." Then sometime after I saw Alonso exit the pit lane and then undercut Jenson in turn 1 and I thought, "That's fantastic!"

I respect Button's driving and strategic thinking very much. His drive in Monza was surprisingly good. If he had a bit more speed he might have nullified the 0.8 second pit stop advantage of Alonso. Looking back though, Alonso had that race in the palm of his hand. He was masterfully controlling his pace and waiting to make his move at the pit stops. We can deduce that Alonso's Ferrari was the faster car that day. Remember, Alonso actually started the race with more fuel than Button so Button's car was slightly faster at the beginning of the race, to the average man it seemed like Button had genuine pace over Alonso, but it was not so: Later on Button had to switch to "G4" fuel setting which is 3 steps down from full power setting, this is because he used up too much fuel trying to keep Alonso back in his higher drag car - Button was going all out. Unbeknownst to Button though, Alonso was not pushing at all - he was conserving fuel going at about 90% of his maximum pace. After the pit stop Alonso belted out the full power of that Ferrari V8 and put his car in a position to capitalize on his pit stop. Then he jumps Button and rode off on his stallion into the Italian sunset. Fernando's car still had more than enough fuel to go full power until he end (Home race). Even if Button was still in front after that pit stop he would be inevitably eaten alive on one of the straights or he would have embarrassingly ran out of fuel defending. So.. It was a very good race by Button.. but he didn't make the right pit stop call, he didn't conserve fuel at the right times and ultimately he wasn't fast enough... Sure Hamilton cocked up his race..Button was better that weekend..But I have to call it as I see it The beating is coming down!

[Bubbie]

I agree... During the race while Button was leading, I thought that the Ferrari was going to go into fuel saver mode. Great strategy by ALO and the mechanics.

The decision to pit wasn't Button's though. The McLaren team made the decision to pit, made evident when he rejoined behind the Ferrari by Button asking on the radio why they brought him in.

[vaptin]

I agree... During the race while Button was leading, I thought that the Ferrari was going to go into fuel saver mode. Great strategy by ALO and the mechanics.

The decision to pit wasn't Button's though. The McLaren team made the decision to pit, made evident when he rejoined behind the Ferrari by Button asking on the radio why they brought him in.

Yeah, but I've covered in it in other thread, the decision to pit seemed like the right one (by that I mean the best Mclaren could pull off).

[f1ea]

I agree... During the race while Button was leading, I thought that the Ferrari was going to go into fuel saver mode. Great strategy by ALO and the mechanics.

The decision to pit wasn't Button's though. The McLaren team made the decision to pit, made evident when he rejoined behind the Ferrari by Button asking on the radio why they brought him in.

Yeah, but I've covered in it in other thread, the decision to pit seemed like the right one (by that I mean the best Mclaren could pull off).

yes it was. Alonso could have waited a couple more laps on good pace than Jenson could. So, anyways he was going to be able to pit after them. The problem for Jenson were: 1- the fast Ferrari stop, 2- Alonso's pace 3- His pace on the first laps on the hards. No way to get around those, except maybe #1 but that was just something that happened.

[myownalias]

I have nothing to add except: OMG 76 pages and it hasn't been locked yet, maybe I should lock it for fun! [j/k] I pity the fool that reads this whole thread!!! That is all!!!

[Peng]

yes it was. Alonso could have waited a couple more laps on good pace than Jenson could. So, anyways he was going to be able to pit after them. The problem for Jenson were: 1- the fast Ferrari stop, 2- Alonso's pace 3- His pace on the first laps on the hards. No way to get around those, except maybe #1 but that was just something that happened.

I wouldn't say it was the best choice hardly any of the cars got good laps when first changing over to the hard tyre so if the Ferrari's had been forced to pit 1st Button could have quite easily maintained his lead after his pit stop, Maybe Alonso would have been able to overtake Button at that point if Button couldn't hold him off because of the lack of grip in the hard tyres but i am quite sure Button would have still been ahead after the pit stops.

Alonso's pace was good on the option tyre but when he switched to the prime he wasn't exactly breaking lap records, you could say he slowed down to conserve the engine which could be true and yes he was overall faster than Button but Button being the tactical driver he is isn't exactly easy to overtake.
Even with 2 laps of free space Alonso only managed to pull a gap of i think 1-2 seconds and that was with a pitstop that was probably close to 1 second faster than Buttons.

So i just think Mclaren blinked first and it lost than 7 points its just sad Button actually listened to his mechanics this time instead of himself, it could have quite easily been 3/3 wins from his tactical decisions.

[Peng]

How does it matter? Lewis will win. A DNF is impossible for Hamilton unless it isnt his fault at all. Which it will never be.

He actually stated it was his fault in Monza last weekend or maybe you didn't notice?

Oh please, how can an angel like Lewis EVER make a mistake!? I dont notice such trivial things such as Hamilton making mistakes.

Seeing you changed your fingerprint and started posting in a 100% sarcastic theme, I'm guessing you're quite cheesed off with the Lewis fans in the forum huh?

Yeah pretty much but not all Lewis fans, like you for example, are fine, know what you are talking about and can back up your statements. I'm just mocking a few who really just dont know what they are talking about and just throw nonsense out there and have no intention of defending it.

Lets not talk about this further. Trouble may come my way.

So i am one of those? i wouldn't say that since i can actually admit when Hamilton/my favourite driver/team screws up unlike some.

I would agree though some people take supporting their favourite driver/team to the extreme and it gets annoying especially when they ignore posts just because it doesn't fit with their view.

[vaptin]

yes it was. Alonso could have waited a couple more laps on good pace than Jenson could. So, anyways he was going to be able to pit after them. The problem for Jenson were: 1- the fast Ferrari stop, 2- Alonso's pace 3- His pace on the first laps on the hards. No way to get around those, except maybe #1 but that was just something that happened.

I wouldn't say it was the best choice hardly any of the cars got good laps when first changing over to the hard tyre so if the Ferrari's had been forced to pit 1st Button could have quite easily maintained his lead after his pit stop, Maybe Alonso would have been able to overtake Button at that point if Button couldn't hold him off because of the lack of grip in the hard tyres but i am quite sure Button would have still been ahead after the pit stops.

Alonso's pace was good on the option tyre but when he switched to the prime he wasn't exactly breaking lap records, you could say he slowed down to conserve the engine which could be true and yes he was overall faster than Button but Button being the tactical driver he is isn't exactly easy to overtake.
Even with 2 laps of free space Alonso only managed to pull a gap of i think 1-2 seconds and that was with a pitstop that was probably close to 1 second faster than Buttons.

So i just think Mclaren blinked first and it lost than 7 points its just sad Button actually listened to his mechanics this time instead of himself, it could have quite easily been 3/3 wins from his tactical decisions.

I thought Jenson's tyres were in a worse shape than Alonso's, hence the longer Jenson stayed out the bigger the performance gap would get against him and in Alonso's favour.

[racechick]

He should have done like Vettel and stayed out until the last lap. If Alonso had continued to wait he'd have been disqualified for only using one sort of tyre

[vaptin]

He should have done like Vettel and stayed out until the last lap. If Alonso had continued to wait he'd have been disqualified for only using one sort of tyre

Ignoring a pointless jibe about Alonso, by that point Alonso would probably be able to have pitted and be faster on the hard tyres anyway (to leapfrog Button)

[f1ea]

He should have done like Vettel and stayed out until the last lap. If Alonso had continued to wait he'd have been disqualified for only using one sort of tyre

Ignoring a pointless jibe about Alonso, by that point Alonso would probably be able to have pitted and be faster on the hard tyres anyway (to leapfrog Button)

Vettel wasnt being charged by anyone. Playing defense puts quite a load on the tires. As much as Jenson can save tires, very difficult to keep Alonso behind while keeping his tires alive...

Really, i think there was nothing to do. Obviously the super fast pit stop did most of the job... but apart from that, from a strategy point of view, Jenson had very little choice.

[racechick]

He should have done like Vettel and stayed out until the last lap. If Alonso had continued to wait he'd have been disqualified for only using one sort of tyre

Ignoring a pointless jibe about Alonso, by that point Alonso would probably be able to have pitted and be faster on the hard tyres anyway (to leapfrog Button)

It wasnt a jibe it was a valid observation. It worked for Vettel could have done for Button. Alonso(or whoever else was racing Button in that situation if you're defensive about Alonso) would either have has to capitulate and pit or be left out on the same tyres.

[vaptin]

He should have done like Vettel and stayed out until the last lap. If Alonso had continued to wait he'd have been disqualified for only using one sort of tyre

Ignoring a pointless jibe about Alonso, by that point Alonso would probably be able to have pitted and be faster on the hard tyres anyway (to leapfrog Button)

It wasnt a jibe it was a valid observation. It worked for Vettel could have done for Button. Alonso(or whoever else was racing Button in that situation if you're defensive about Alonso) would either have has to capitulate and pit or be left out on the same tyres.

Aye, just diddn't see why there was a smiley at the end,

Jenson's tyres would probably have been shot, he was already locking up fairly regularly before his pit-stop in the race, it would've been quite obvious to Ferrari that after a while they should pit Alonso and the harder tryres would work out a lot faster than Jenson's worn softs, so that Alonso would be ahead when Jenson pitted. Assuming that Alonso wouldn't get by on track anyway, think Jenson also had some fuel saving to do?

[racechick]

He should have done like Vettel and stayed out until the last lap. If Alonso had continued to wait he'd have been disqualified for only using one sort of tyre

Ignoring a pointless jibe about Alonso, by that point Alonso would probably be able to have pitted and be faster on the hard tyres anyway (to leapfrog Button)

It wasnt a jibe it was a valid observation. It worked for Vettel could have done for Button. Alonso(or whoever else was racing Button in that situation if you're defensive about Alonso) would either have has to capitulate and pit or be left out on the same tyres.

Aye, just diddn't see why there was a smiley at the end,

Jenson's tyres would probably have been shot, he was already locking up fairly regularly before his pit-stop in the race, it would've been quite obvious to Ferrari that after a while they should pit Alonso and the harder tryres would work out a lot faster than Jenson's worn softs, so that Alonso would be ahead when Jenson pitted. Assuming that Alonso wouldn't get by on track anyway, think Jenson also had some fuel saving to do?

Jens was also pretty annoyed a being called in, I think he might have made it work. Alonso couldnt get by on track, he'd been trying and failed. Who knows whether it would have worked it may have. it did for Vettel, then agen it may no have but its worthy of speculation. (the smiley was a bit wicked, it was the thought of Alonso getting disqualified for not pitting.....which obvuiosly wouldnt have happened, ferrari arent stupid, but I can dream)