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[f1ea]

so for me, Heikki moving over for Lewis is England, France and Germany is ok, even good.

Wait... do you mean... there's more??
I would have never guessed it.......

[bud]

so for me, Heikki moving over for Lewis is England, France and Germany is ok, even good.

Wait... do you mean... there's more??
I would have never guessed it.......

i dont recall them myself... And Germany was hardly moving over either. Unlike Massa and Alonso where Massa was just as fast as Alonso. Heikki and Lewis were on different strategies and Lewis was actually faster. During the pit era days nearly every team would have done this, hearing from the team radio teams talking about driver x strategy differing with driver y's and not to hinder one anothers strategies. I recall BMWSauber doing this one race where Nick was on say a 3 stopper while Robert a 2 stopper.

This while may be seen as team orders is not in the same vein as one driver having to concede a victory for no fault of his own other than being behind in the championship table.

[spankyham]

i dont recall them myself...

Why am I not surprised

And Germany was hardly moving over either. Unlike Massa and Alonso

This video shows the two passes. Germany 08 Lewis/Heikki and Germany 10 Alonso/Massa No need for any words, you can see who moves over and who doesn't. You can see who almost comes to a stop and takes the reverse apex line and who doesn't.
[youtube]OaMvfJEN9KU[/youtube]

This while may be seen as team orders is not in the same vein as one driver having to concede a victory for no fault of his own other than being behind in the championship table.

An admissions, "it may be team orders" - well, you got that one right.

[bud]

are you forgetting the part where Lewis was ACTUALLY FASTER than Heikki? Lewis passed Heikki then went on to pass two more cars!!! If McLaren were disadvantaging Heikki why didnt he have the speed to go and pass the cars ahead also? Go on answer that simple question !

[vaptin]

are you forgetting the part where Lewis was ACTUALLY FASTER than Heikki? Lewis passed Heikki then went on to pass two more cars!!! If McLaren were disadvantaging Heikki why didnt he have the speed to go and pass the cars ahead also? Go on answer that simple question !

So you think Ferrari would've been right to use team orders in Australia this year?

[bud]

are you forgetting the part where Lewis was ACTUALLY FASTER than Heikki? Lewis passed Heikki then went on to pass two more cars!!! If McLaren were disadvantaging Heikki why didnt he have the speed to go and pass the cars ahead also? Go on answer that simple question !

So you think Ferrari would've been right to use team orders in Australia this year?

don't answer a question with a question...

[vaptin]

are you forgetting the part where Lewis was ACTUALLY FASTER than Heikki? Lewis passed Heikki then went on to pass two more cars!!! If McLaren were disadvantaging Heikki why didnt he have the speed to go and pass the cars ahead also? Go on answer that simple question !

So you think Ferrari would've been right to use team orders in Australia this year?

don't answer a question with a question...

Well, ok, but the rule concerning team orders is blind to the circumstances,

[nish2280]

are you forgetting the part where Lewis was ACTUALLY FASTER than Heikki? Lewis passed Heikki then went on to pass two more cars!!! If McLaren were disadvantaging Heikki why didnt he have the speed to go and pass the cars ahead also? Go on answer that simple question !

Maybe because he was on a different strategy? Or maybe because he was told to try get some sightseeing done on the hairpin and let Lewis past before he could actually "turn up the wick" and go at the guys in front.

And if Lewis was so fast why did he not just overtake Heikki without the team having to interfere?

"Go on answer that simple question!"

[spankyham]

are you forgetting the part where Lewis was ACTUALLY FASTER than Heikki? Lewis passed Heikki then went on to pass two more cars!!! If McLaren were disadvantaging Heikki why didnt he have the speed to go and pass the cars ahead also? Go on answer that simple question !

So you're saying it's 100% for sure that Heikki couldn't have defended his position, not even for a few laps, cause that's all he would have had to do?

Lewis was on fresher rubber so was benefiting from that. If Heikki had defended Lewis couldn't have caught Felipe and Piquet cause there were only 9 laps to go. So 100% absolutely McLaren's team order interfered with the race result and as it ends out, the WDC as well.

And, as for Lewis being ACTUALLY FASTER than Heikki ........ where was he again ...... oh yeah, behind. So, if I got you right, the guy whose race was ACTUALLY FASTER was the guy behind

[bud]

youre unbelievable! youre laughing at a comment that same comment that Ferrari used to tell Massa to slow down. Which you are all for!

Again you seem to forget Lewis was winning that race until the SC screwed his race strategy up. He pitted after the SC thus came out the pits behind Heikki. Never did Heikki get ahead on merit like Massa was on merit leading the GP.

[spankyham]

youre unbelievable! youre laughing at a comment that same comment that Ferrari used to tell Massa to slow down. Which you are all for!

No, you keep forgetting, I'm not against team orders. I'm "in favour" of them, and I believe F1 is a "team" sport and, so team orders, strategies etc are all fine by me. You're the one that's selectively against them.

Again you seem to forget Lewis was winning that race until the SC screwed his race strategy up. He pitted after the SC thus came out the pits behind Heikki. Never did Heikki get ahead on merit like Massa was on merit leading the GP.

Heikki was ahead of Lewis on many occasions. At the start of the 2008 season he finished ahead in both Malaysia and Bahrain. After that the Team Orders kicked in so we just don't know how many more he could have beaten Lewis on his merit in.
Oh, didums, so a Safety Cars and pit stops and whether to use F-Ducts are not part of racing and part of the overall package that decides who wins or looses and who is overall fastest. Of course, Lewis could have just driven past the safety car - that seems to work for him.

[bud]

yeah defensive response means you have nothing. what was it you said previously? bud 1 spanky 0.... naa thats just kids talk!!

[f1ea]

Team orders at Mclaren = 1
No team orders at Mclaren = 0

[Jensonb]

I've changed my mind, there were no Team Orders in Hungary, Massa's just a stupid useless tit and slowed down because he got all in a panic.













What? It's about as feasible as McLaren getting away with disadvantaging Button, and that's (inexplicably) being accepted as fact by a lot of you for...No reason.

[spankyham]

I've changed my mind, there were no Team Orders in Hungary, Massa's just a stupid useless tit and slowed down because he got all in a panic.



What? It's about as feasible as McLaren getting away with disadvantaging Button, and that's (inexplicably) being accepted as fact by a lot of you for...No reason.

I just don't understand any of this, and that's given that I've worked out that Hungary should be Germany.
Can I have some of whatever you were drinking when you wrote this?