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[AKR]

:rofl: oh my god you guys still arguing..

ok ok..

let the Mclaren Bum boys have there dreams that There Holy team are never wrong and never cheated since the formation of the team, like that secret illegal pedal they had years ago that *woops* slipped there mind to tell anyone. and the whole 2007 thing. I used to think Ferrari were bad but mclaren are obviosly in a different league

but ive already apolagised so im not stirring up anymore

Oh yes that illegal pedal McLaren had. Once a cheater always a cheater.......

[bud]

:rofl: oh my god you guys still arguing..

ok ok..

let the Mclaren Bum boys have there dreams that There Holy team are never wrong and never cheated since the formation of the team, like that secret illegal pedal they had years ago that *woops* slipped there mind to tell anyone. and the whole 2007 thing. I used to think Ferrari were bad but mclaren are obviosly in a different league

but ive already apolagised so im not stirring up anymore

Oh yes that illegal pedal McLaren had. Once a cheater always a cheater.......

illegal pedal........

Red Benettons

[McLaren Fan]

True Ferrari had no reason to bring a civil suite against anyone but Mclaren, Couglan and Stepney but the FIA should have come down on ANY team no matter where they lie in the championship as hard as another. The FIA and the WMSC should be their to impose the rules fairly across the board and no let teams off just because they didnt affect the outcome of the race.
Mclaren were found in the wrong and punished spo why should renult and/or Toyota get away with similer breaches of the sporting code?

My thoughts exactly.

:rofl: oh my god you guys still arguing..

ok ok..

let the Mclaren Bum boys have there dreams that There Holy team are never wrong and never cheated since the formation of the team, like that secret illegal pedal they had years ago that *woops* slipped there mind to tell anyone. and the whole 2007 thing. I used to think Ferrari were bad but mclaren are obviosly in a different league

but ive already apolagised so im not stirring up anymore

The pedal was completely legal, you silly twat. Nobody said McLaren did nothing wrong, you deranged fool. Renault are off the f***ing charts when it comes to cheating, you idiotic maggot.

[AKR]

The pedal was completely legal, you silly twat. Nobody said McLaren did nothing wrong, you deranged fool. Renault are off the f***ing charts when it comes to cheating, you idiotic maggot.

I'll assume that was directed at KyvosV and not me. By the way I know the pedal was legal. I just love stirring you McLaren supporters. You guys get cut over the smallest of things.

[McLaren Fan]

The pedal was completely legal, you silly twat. Nobody said McLaren did nothing wrong, you deranged fool. Renault are off the f***ing charts when it comes to cheating, you idiotic maggot.

I'll assume that was directed at KyvosV and not me. By the way I know the pedal was legal. I just love stirring you McLaren supporters. You guys get cut over the smallest of things.

The comment was directed at the immensely hypocritical KyvosV.

[AKR]

The pedal was completely legal, you silly twat. Nobody said McLaren did nothing wrong, you deranged fool. Renault are off the f***ing charts when it comes to cheating, you idiotic maggot.

I'll assume that was directed at KyvosV and not me. By the way I know the pedal was legal. I just love stirring you McLaren supporters. You guys get cut over the smallest of things.

The comment was directed at the immensely hypocritical KyvosV.

I know it was Chris, sve je dobro (All is good) I could tell it was all directed at him, especially since you mentioned only Renault and no Ferrari.

[darwin dali]

True Ferrari had no reason to bring a civil suite against anyone but Mclaren, Couglan and Stepney but the FIA should have come down on ANY team no matter where they lie in the championship as hard as another. The FIA and the WMSC should be their to impose the rules fairly across the board and no let teams off just because they didnt affect the outcome of the race.
Mclaren were found in the wrong and punished spo why should renult and/or Toyota get away with similer breaches of the sporting code?

My thoughts exactly.

:rofl: oh my god you guys still arguing..

ok ok..

let the Mclaren Bum boys have there dreams that There Holy team are never wrong and never cheated since the formation of the team, like that secret illegal pedal they had years ago that *woops* slipped there mind to tell anyone. and the whole 2007 thing. I used to think Ferrari were bad but mclaren are obviosly in a different league

but ive already apolagised so im not stirring up anymore

The pedal was completely legal, you silly twat. Nobody said McLaren did nothing wrong, you deranged fool. Renault are off the f***ing charts when it comes to cheating, you idiotic maggot.

A bit rough here - can we maintain some decorum?

[McLaren Fan]

True Ferrari had no reason to bring a civil suite against anyone but Mclaren, Couglan and Stepney but the FIA should have come down on ANY team no matter where they lie in the championship as hard as another. The FIA and the WMSC should be their to impose the rules fairly across the board and no let teams off just because they didnt affect the outcome of the race.
Mclaren were found in the wrong and punished spo why should renult and/or Toyota get away with similer breaches of the sporting code?

My thoughts exactly.

:rofl: oh my god you guys still arguing..

ok ok..

let the Mclaren Bum boys have there dreams that There Holy team are never wrong and never cheated since the formation of the team, like that secret illegal pedal they had years ago that *woops* slipped there mind to tell anyone. and the whole 2007 thing. I used to think Ferrari were bad but mclaren are obviosly in a different league

but ive already apolagised so im not stirring up anymore

The pedal was completely legal, you silly twat. Nobody said McLaren did nothing wrong, you deranged fool. Renault are off the f***ing charts when it comes to cheating, you idiotic maggot.

A bit rough here - can we maintain some decorum?

Sorry. I was a little OTT. KyrosV is still a hypocrite and a wind-up merchant, however.

[Mikep99]

Mind reader- I could probably make a pretty good guess what you're thinking most of the time
Lamb- no way honorary or otherwise
hamophile-Yes you got that one right
Gullible-as I said probably, sometimes but not in this case. I have inside information

What kind of inside info are we talking about here

[deMuRe]

British GP, 2007, Ron Dennis, I quote:

'I live and breathe this team. There is no way anything incorrect would ever happen in our team. My personal integrity is very important to me and my company's integrity is even more important to me. We are working closely with the FIA and closely with Ferrari. This matter does not involve our company.'

'I am absolutely confident that with the passing of time, the world will understand that McLaren's position is one that is reflective of our statements. We have never, to my knowledge, ever used other people's intellectual property. It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm.'

Those words came back to haunt Ron, in December he issued a grovelling apology which revealed the full extent of the Ferrari information infiltration. Not only on the car that won 8 races in 2007, but the MP-23, the car that was being constructed for 2008.

This is from a team that was noted for it's immaculate and unimpeachable image, it's integrity was ripped apart.

Either Dennis knew about it or it was a display of poor administrative control by Dennis, Whitmarsh and Neale. How could the right hand be so unaware of what the left hand was doing?

Most think the FIA's pummeling of McLaren was merciless, this apology showed the FIA were completely justified in their actions.

McLaren did once have a proud record in formula one however the spy scandal completely destroyed their reputation as a team and brought the entire sport into disrepute.

The fact you can still support Ron Dennis with such passion is beyond words, he is both deceptive and incompetent beyond all measure...

Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't. The McLaren Group is a big organisation with many different subgroups, of which McLaren Racing is only one. To handle such a company, responsibilities are devolved to certain groups and people throughout it. Similar things happen in other companies. If one of the foot soldiers are rogue, how the hell is the general going know? Put simply, he can't. Jonathan Neale, one of the sergeants, if you like, carrying on the military metaphor, thought he had the problem with Coughlan solved. He did not, however, for Coughlan went behind McLaren's back.

Perhaps you need reminded of the findings of the FIA's report on the spy scandal. As I've told you before, the FIA found there was no Ferrari intellectual data on the MP4-22, although two components possibly found their way onto the MP4-23. That doesn't seem to have permeated into your thick head as yet.

Never mind McLaren bringing Formula One into disrepute, the FIA do that themselves, with their cosy relations with Ferrari, bungling one rule change after another, allowing a Nazi for a President (who's breaking his own two-term limit legislation) to stay, their nefarious practices to ensure title battles go to the last race of the season, and completely screwing-up sorting out the spy scandal.

There is a problem with your statement in the first paragraph which as a consequence makes the rest just a HYPOTHESIS from a McLaren lamb of the highers order.

Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't.

Tell me how the hell you know that for fact ? Because Ron tells us so.

How gullible can you get. And your not Bias

Ron Dennis is a business man and will do whatever it takes to win, end of story.
Successful Business men are not known for there integrity.

Have a look at this snake in the grass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x9bjEo0DFE

McLaren fan is right. Ron Dennis is not dishonest. Yes he is a business man but will not compromise his integrity to succeed. Success means lass to him than how it is achieved.
Yes he is a control freak but that doesnt mean he knows what every individual employee is doing at every given moment, thats impossible. It was a couple of rougue employees, including FA, but lets not forget that it all started by Ferrari not knowing what ITs rogue employee was doing.

If it were just a couple of Rogue employees then Ron Dennis would have appealed to the fine and he definitely wouldn't have apologised.

He knew about it and tried to cover it up.

Not the actions of an honest man...

[racechick]

British GP, 2007, Ron Dennis, I quote:

'I live and breathe this team. There is no way anything incorrect would ever happen in our team. My personal integrity is very important to me and my company's integrity is even more important to me. We are working closely with the FIA and closely with Ferrari. This matter does not involve our company.'

'I am absolutely confident that with the passing of time, the world will understand that McLaren's position is one that is reflective of our statements. We have never, to my knowledge, ever used other people's intellectual property. It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm.'

Those words came back to haunt Ron, in December he issued a grovelling apology which revealed the full extent of the Ferrari information infiltration. Not only on the car that won 8 races in 2007, but the MP-23, the car that was being constructed for 2008.

This is from a team that was noted for it's immaculate and unimpeachable image, it's integrity was ripped apart.

Either Dennis knew about it or it was a display of poor administrative control by Dennis, Whitmarsh and Neale. How could the right hand be so unaware of what the left hand was doing?

Most think the FIA's pummeling of McLaren was merciless, this apology showed the FIA were completely justified in their actions.

McLaren did once have a proud record in formula one however the spy scandal completely destroyed their reputation as a team and brought the entire sport into disrepute.

The fact you can still support Ron Dennis with such passion is beyond words, he is both deceptive and incompetent beyond all measure...

Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't. The McLaren Group is a big organisation with many different subgroups, of which McLaren Racing is only one. To handle such a company, responsibilities are devolved to certain groups and people throughout it. Similar things happen in other companies. If one of the foot soldiers are rogue, how the hell is the general going know? Put simply, he can't. Jonathan Neale, one of the sergeants, if you like, carrying on the military metaphor, thought he had the problem with Coughlan solved. He did not, however, for Coughlan went behind McLaren's back.

Perhaps you need reminded of the findings of the FIA's report on the spy scandal. As I've told you before, the FIA found there was no Ferrari intellectual data on the MP4-22, although two components possibly found their way onto the MP4-23. That doesn't seem to have permeated into your thick head as yet.

Never mind McLaren bringing Formula One into disrepute, the FIA do that themselves, with their cosy relations with Ferrari, bungling one rule change after another, allowing a Nazi for a President (who's breaking his own two-term limit legislation) to stay, their nefarious practices to ensure title battles go to the last race of the season, and completely screwing-up sorting out the spy scandal.

There is a problem with your statement in the first paragraph which as a consequence makes the rest just a HYPOTHESIS from a McLaren lamb of the highers order.

Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't.

Tell me how the hell you know that for fact ? Because Ron tells us so.

How gullible can you get. And your not Bias

Ron Dennis is a business man and will do whatever it takes to win, end of story.
Successful Business men are not known for there integrity.

Have a look at this snake in the grass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x9bjEo0DFE

McLaren fan is right. Ron Dennis is not dishonest. Yes he is a business man but will not compromise his integrity to succeed. Success means lass to him than how it is achieved.
Yes he is a control freak but that doesnt mean he knows what every individual employee is doing at every given moment, thats impossible. It was a couple of rougue employees, including FA, but lets not forget that it all started by Ferrari not knowing what ITs rogue employee was doing.

If it were just a couple of Rogue employees then Ron Dennis would have appealed to the fine and he definitely wouldn't have apologised.

He knew about it and tried to cover it up.

Not the actions of an honest man...

Inncorrect. He knew who he was dealing with and what would happen if he didnt read from the script he was given. It was apologise or get kicked out next year.

[racechick]

Mind reader- I could probably make a pretty good guess what you're thinking most of the time
Lamb- no way honorary or otherwise
hamophile-Yes you got that one right
Gullible-as I said probably, sometimes but not in this case. I have inside information

What kind of inside info are we talking about here

Tell you that and they'll shoot me

[Kiwi_Chris]

As a Mclaren fan, id never argue that they didnt cheat, they did they got caught they got punished - thats the outcome of the situation.
My beef isnt with Ferrari as a team, i belive they did everything by the book and took appropriate action in this case.
The issue i have is that the FIA and the WMSC were confronted with similar, not the same, but similar cases involving other teams that were not front runners in the championship but were none the less still competing for it, but yet the punishments that were handed out were not in line with what was handed out earlier to Mclaren for the Stepney/ Coughalin incident.That is at the heart of what a lot of Mclaren fans are saying and im sure Ferrari fans would be outraged as well if this happend to the Scudaria

I notice this thread and many others are degreading from reasoned debate between passionate and knowledegable F1 fans into nothing but childish mud slinging, it puts me off posting personally and i wonder if it is really called for in the middle of threads. Yes we are all passionate about our favourite teams/or drivers but pulling it down to name calling is just stupid.

[deMuRe]

British GP, 2007, Ron Dennis, I quote:

'I live and breathe this team. There is no way anything incorrect would ever happen in our team. My personal integrity is very important to me and my company's integrity is even more important to me. We are working closely with the FIA and closely with Ferrari. This matter does not involve our company.'

'I am absolutely confident that with the passing of time, the world will understand that McLaren's position is one that is reflective of our statements. We have never, to my knowledge, ever used other people's intellectual property. It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm.'

Those words came back to haunt Ron, in December he issued a grovelling apology which revealed the full extent of the Ferrari information infiltration. Not only on the car that won 8 races in 2007, but the MP-23, the car that was being constructed for 2008.

This is from a team that was noted for it's immaculate and unimpeachable image, it's integrity was ripped apart.

Either Dennis knew about it or it was a display of poor administrative control by Dennis, Whitmarsh and Neale. How could the right hand be so unaware of what the left hand was doing?

Most think the FIA's pummeling of McLaren was merciless, this apology showed the FIA were completely justified in their actions.

McLaren did once have a proud record in formula one however the spy scandal completely destroyed their reputation as a team and brought the entire sport into disrepute.

The fact you can still support Ron Dennis with such passion is beyond words, he is both deceptive and incompetent beyond all measure...

Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't. The McLaren Group is a big organisation with many different subgroups, of which McLaren Racing is only one. To handle such a company, responsibilities are devolved to certain groups and people throughout it. Similar things happen in other companies. If one of the foot soldiers are rogue, how the hell is the general going know? Put simply, he can't. Jonathan Neale, one of the sergeants, if you like, carrying on the military metaphor, thought he had the problem with Coughlan solved. He did not, however, for Coughlan went behind McLaren's back.

Perhaps you need reminded of the findings of the FIA's report on the spy scandal. As I've told you before, the FIA found there was no Ferrari intellectual data on the MP4-22, although two components possibly found their way onto the MP4-23. That doesn't seem to have permeated into your thick head as yet.

Never mind McLaren bringing Formula One into disrepute, the FIA do that themselves, with their cosy relations with Ferrari, bungling one rule change after another, allowing a Nazi for a President (who's breaking his own two-term limit legislation) to stay, their nefarious practices to ensure title battles go to the last race of the season, and completely screwing-up sorting out the spy scandal.

There is a problem with your statement in the first paragraph which as a consequence makes the rest just a HYPOTHESIS from a McLaren lamb of the highers order.

Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't.

Tell me how the hell you know that for fact ? Because Ron tells us so.

How gullible can you get. And your not Bias

Ron Dennis is a business man and will do whatever it takes to win, end of story.
Successful Business men are not known for there integrity.

Have a look at this snake in the grass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x9bjEo0DFE

McLaren fan is right. Ron Dennis is not dishonest. Yes he is a business man but will not compromise his integrity to succeed. Success means lass to him than how it is achieved.
Yes he is a control freak but that doesnt mean he knows what every individual employee is doing at every given moment, thats impossible. It was a couple of rougue employees, including FA, but lets not forget that it all started by Ferrari not knowing what ITs rogue employee was doing.

If it were just a couple of Rogue employees then Ron Dennis would have appealed to the fine and he definitely wouldn't have apologised.

He knew about it and tried to cover it up.

Not the actions of an honest man...

Inncorrect. He knew who he was dealing with and what would happen if he didnt read from the script he was given. It was apologise or get kicked out next year.

Oh so it's a conspiracy now, you sure you haven't been influenced by the McLaren friendly media articles? Journalists know there are many McLaren fans who simply don't want to accept that their beloved team could be anything but the source of all light and purity on this earth. Maybe perhaps you were being told what you wanted to hear?

[racechick]

Not a conspiracy but Mosely certainly had an agenda. If you're talking about the article in the Sunday Times last week I heard about it but I didnt read it cos i was at Silverstone. Didnt even know about it till the other day. My opinions were formed without the help of any media.