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[overboost]

The rules aren't flawed, they're there for a reason. Two manufactures produced inferior engines despite being given lots of time to prepare. If you feel the racing is being ruined , or your team isn't doing very well, that's the reason. They made bad engines. That's not the rules fault, its the engineers who made the engines fault. Didn't do well enough. But at least everyone had a chance to get it right, unlike the four years of flexing red bulls, and yet then you didn't feel things were boring? That's very odd.

The other teams were free to compete with the Red Bulls unlike now where the engine rules are stalling any fightback by the other manufacturers.

The last half of 2013 was indeed boring but that I do believe was brought on by the others giving up on 2013 and focusing on the new formula coming in 2014. It made for a boring season as there was no competition. The same is true now except the lack of competition and boring racing is due to flawed rules giving one team a free pass.

[Hammer278]

The rules aren't flawed, they're there for a reason. Two manufactures produced inferior engines despite being given lots of time to prepare. If you feel the racing is being ruined , or your team isn't doing very well, that's the reason. They made bad engines. That's not the rules fault, its the engineers who made the engines fault. Didn't do well enough. But at least everyone had a chance to get it right, unlike the four years of flexing red bulls, and yet then you didn't feel things were boring? That's very odd.

The other teams were free to compete with the Red Bulls unlike now where the engine rules are the stalling any fightback by the other manufacturers.

The last half of 2013 was indeed boring but that I do believe was brought on by the others giving up on 2013 and focusing on the new formula coming in 2014. It made for a boring season as there was no competition. The same is true now except the lack of competition and boring racing is due to flawed rules giving one team a free pass.

These new rules and regs were agreed upon about UNANIMOUSLY 3 years ago. How is this giving 1 team a free pass? It's amazing your keyboard doesn't self destruct from all this bile you're typing out.

Are you just gearing up for a constant bile of excessive moaning and whining whenever Mercedes wins a race this season by delivering the best machinery and having the best drivers?

[racechick]

The rules aren't flawed, they're there for a reason. Two manufactures produced inferior engines despite being given lots of time to prepare. If you feel the racing is being ruined , or your team isn't doing very well, that's the reason. They made bad engines. That's not the rules fault, its the engineers who made the engines fault. Didn't do well enough. But at least everyone had a chance to get it right, unlike the four years of flexing red bulls, and yet then you didn't feel things were boring? That's very odd.

The other teams were free to compete with the Red Bulls unlike now where the engine rules are the stalling any fightback by the other manufacturers.

The last half of 2013 was indeed boring but that I do believe was brought on by the others giving up on 2013 and focusing on the new formula coming in 2014. It made for a boring season as there was no competition. The same is true now except the lack of competition and boring racing is due to flawed rules giving one team a free pass.

The rules aren't flawed, Ferrari and Renaults engines are, though they seem to be sorting things out a bit.. No free pass, just inferior competition.

[CookinFlat6]

Its interesting how the teams had a chance to change the ""flawed"" rules to go along with the 2 backward facing suggestions by Horner and Ferrari

And rejected EVERY SINGLE ONE, not only voting to KEEP THE RULES EXACTLY AS THEY ARE, but not changing a single thing till AFTER 2017

""Flawed"" engine noise - didnt want to change at all
""Flawed"" tokens - didnt want to change at all
""Flawed"" ERS - didnt want to change at all
""Flawed"" 4 engine per year limit? - didnt want to change at all
""Flawed"" 100 units of fuel? - didnt want to change at all
Replace ""Flawed"" V6 turbo +ERS? with a V8?
Freeze development on the ERS?
Freeze any builder with a pointed star logo from any developments at all while the others spend unlimited amounts and have unlimited time to copy their engine?
Freeze blind sheep supporters in a cyrogenic capsule for 1000 years or till Ferrari win again?

[CookinFlat6]

The rules aren't flawed, Ferrari and Renaults engines are, though they seem to be sorting things out a bit.. No free pass, just inferior competition.

Sorting things out is a diplomatic way to express backward arsed knee jerkism

Red Bull imposed Mario Illien on Renault to help ""sort things out"", and the sheep appluaded, surely employing the Illien of Illmore engines which became Mercedes HPE was a way of replicating Mercs prowess. Unfortunately the sheep forgot the simple mechanics of supply and demand.
i.e if Mario Illien was still at the height of his powers and his expertise had evolved to the modern ERS, then he would still be part of the Merc HPE/Illmore setup.

And Ferrari - have turned to Rory Bryne AGAIN, this will be the 4th time they have brought him back out of retirement to replicate his glory period of 20 years ago, lets not forget that each time they fired him for being old fashioned/not Italian/too relaxed/part of the Todt Brawn MS clique

[RyRy]

Ferrari aim to win two races this year. I'm with overboost on this one. The greatest F1 team ever indeed.

I think you're being sarcastic but I really can't tell lol

Its sometimes hard to get ones head around statistics, especially when in a hurry to express "passion""
Merc have been in F1 as an engine supplier for a certain number of years, as have Ferrari, whats therefore of any interest is how may winning cars thy powered out of the opportunities they had - i.e. when they were around

Those grown up stats prove Rys point beyond any doubt whatsoever. Even Cosworth are miles better than Ferrari. If we were to then look at the stats for the period we have had engine freeze rules in place then Ferrari hardly register compare to Merc and Red Bull

Being the best is not merely about quantity, its more about quality. If it takes 100 races to win 3 times vs 10 races to win 5 times (3% vs 50%) there are not many yardsticks in the post abacus era that would say the 3% rate is better. Stats based on ""passion"" can be funny like that - in grown up fact, on the current grid Ferrari are the worst by far, even Honda have more success at ""powering winning cars""

I work in statistics so I've picked up and learnt how to correctly read and analyse them. It's easy to say x is better than y but if you delve deeper you quite often find is not as clear cut as people think and actually often wrong so I can understand overboost getting it wrong.

Ha only cookin in his haste for passion would try to turn a lackluster record into something shiny.

Even if we were to just go back to just the most recent past 15 seasons (with Merc in attendance for each year!) Ferrari powered wcc cars are 8, Renault are 6, Mercedes 2.

Merc has a long way to go to catch Renault who have 3x the wcc wins.

Can't really say that Merc are the 'undisputed best engine maker' in F1 imo.

ps. Red Bull aren't an engine manufacturer. They use Renault engines!

Maybe you don't understand statistics...

But they are currently the undisputed best. That's why some people say things will be boring, because mercedes will win, because they have the best engine. Williams are doing quite well and Lotus have come on in leaps and bounds. They both have Merc engines too.

Anyway, I'm no engine expert, but here's an article to muse over concerning the best ten engines to race in F1. It places Ferrari's best effort tenth and the 2014 Merc engine second. So I think on that basis my choice was closer to the mark than yours.
http://formulaspy.com/features/top-ten- ... ce-f1-9274

It's a no brainer that the Mercedes engine its significantly better than its current competitors.

I'm still surprised McLaren moved away from Mercedes engines, they obviously think they can't make a better car than Mercedes thus are gambling on trying to get a better engine

Subjectivity rears its head, once again!

Subjectivity in the posts yes but also a fair bit of objectivity on the from

It is hard to understand I know, but grown up stats dont cherry pick a few years - thats called 'fitting the data'
Ferrari have been building engines in F1 for many many many years and have a poor return of powering winning cars, subjectivity cannot trump objective fact
This despite, their own test track and unlimited funds, a veto on FOM management, a veto on the regulations, an annual 90 mill extra payment, their ex TP in charge of the and th longest continuous period of building engines to the regs they choose.

Yet everyone agrees they built the worst engine depite having 4 years to prepare and the inimitable MS on the payroll

Its hard to argue with them there facts

The best engine maker is the one who makes the best engines, Merc made the best V8 although McLaren made 0 use of it - the best engine has been made and we know who made it ergo Rys right, end of story. And Red Bull have been making a big part of the Renault POWER UNIT for years now

So lets try not to invite ridicule by not addressing these winning facts and instead saying silly things

I'm always right haha, nah. It's pretty easy to see and work out who's the best.

Ferrari will always be at an advantage with everything considering they get more money than other teams but even with that advantage they still can't match Mercedes at building engine's.

The rules aren't flawed, Ferrari and Renaults engines are, though they seem to be sorting things out a bit.. No free pass, just inferior competition.

Anyone who thinks the rules are flawed is obviously either in denial or just doesn't understand.

Mercedes have already given in and got things turned against them even though they didn't do anything wrong other than out-class its fellow competitors.

Its interesting how the teams had a chance to change the ""flawed"" rules to go along with the 2 backward facing suggestions by Horner and Ferrari

And rejected EVERY SINGLE ONE, not only voting to KEEP THE RULES EXACTLY AS THEY ARE, but not changing a single thing till AFTER 2017

""Flawed"" engine noise - didnt want to change at all
""Flawed"" tokens - didnt want to change at all
""Flawed"" ERS - didnt want to change at all
""Flawed"" 4 engine per year limit? - didnt want to change at all
""Flawed"" 100 units of fuel? - didnt want to change at all
Replace ""Flawed"" V6 turbo +ERS? with a V8?
Freeze development on the ERS?
Freeze any builder with a pointed star logo from any developments at all while the others spend unlimited amounts and have unlimited time to copy their engine?
Freeze blind sheep supporters in a cyrogenic capsule for 1000 years or till Ferrari win again?

Need I say more, end of discussion.

[overboost]

The rules aren't flawed, they're there for a reason. Two manufactures produced inferior engines despite being given lots of time to prepare. If you feel the racing is being ruined , or your team isn't doing very well, that's the reason. They made bad engines. That's not the rules fault, its the engineers who made the engines fault. Didn't do well enough. But at least everyone had a chance to get it right, unlike the four years of flexing red bulls, and yet then you didn't feel things were boring? That's very odd.

The other teams were free to compete with the Red Bulls unlike now where the engine rules are the stalling any fightback by the other manufacturers.

The last half of 2013 was indeed boring but that I do believe was brought on by the others giving up on 2013 and focusing on the new formula coming in 2014. It made for a boring season as there was no competition. The same is true now except the lack of competition and boring racing is due to flawed rules giving one team a free pass.

These new rules and regs were agreed upon about UNANIMOUSLY 3 years ago. How is this giving 1 team a free pass? It's amazing your keyboard doesn't self destruct from all this bile you're typing out.

Are you just gearing up for a constant bile of excessive moaning and whining whenever Mercedes wins a race this season by delivering the best machinery and having the best drivers?

I am not sure what the teams agreement more than three years ago has to do with the rules being good, bad or otherwise.

All you need to do is look at the results of the actual implementation to see that they have led to one overwhelmingly dominant car and its competitors without any means to reasonably respond. On track it has produced predictable, boring racing and here we sit today knowing the results of 2015 before testing has even wrapped up!

Fans are leaving and in response the fractured governing committee can only come up with banning helmet designs! The future for F1 doesn't look good.

[racechick]

The rules aren't flawed, they're there for a reason. Two manufactures produced inferior engines despite being given lots of time to prepare. If you feel the racing is being ruined , or your team isn't doing very well, that's the reason. They made bad engines. That's not the rules fault, its the engineers who made the engines fault. Didn't do well enough. But at least everyone had a chance to get it right, unlike the four years of flexing red bulls, and yet then you didn't feel things were boring? That's very odd.

The other teams were free to compete with the Red Bulls unlike now where the engine rules are the stalling any fightback by the other manufacturers.

The last half of 2013 was indeed boring but that I do believe was brought on by the others giving up on 2013 and focusing on the new formula coming in 2014. It made for a boring season as there was no competition. The same is true now except the lack of competition and boring racing is due to flawed rules giving one team a free pass.

These new rules and regs were agreed upon about UNANIMOUSLY 3 years ago. How is this giving 1 team a free pass? It's amazing your keyboard doesn't self destruct from all this bile you're typing out.

Are you just gearing up for a constant bile of excessive moaning and whining whenever Mercedes wins a race this season by delivering the best machinery and having the best drivers?

I am not sure what the teams agreement more than three years ago has to do with the rules being good, bad or otherwise.

All you need to do is look at the results of the actual implementation to see that they have led to one overwhelmingly dominant car and its competitors without any means to respond. On track it has produced predictable, boring racing and here we sit today knowing the results of 2015 before testing has even wrapped up!

Fans are leaving and in response the fractured governing committee can only come up with banning helmet designs. The future for F1 doesn't look good.

And that's all down to Mercedes being so mean and producing a better engine? I think not. F1's problems are many , don't blame a successful team with popular drivers for turning fans away.Mercedes have brought fans in by the million. #MercedesMillion

[CookinFlat6]

The rules aren't flawed, they're there for a reason. Two manufactures produced inferior engines despite being given lots of time to prepare. If you feel the racing is being ruined , or your team isn't doing very well, that's the reason. They made bad engines. That's not the rules fault, its the engineers who made the engines fault. Didn't do well enough. But at least everyone had a chance to get it right, unlike the four years of flexing red bulls, and yet then you didn't feel things were boring? That's very odd.

The other teams were free to compete with the Red Bulls unlike now where the engine rules are the stalling any fightback by the other manufacturers.

The last half of 2013 was indeed boring but that I do believe was brought on by the others giving up on 2013 and focusing on the new formula coming in 2014. It made for a boring season as there was no competition. The same is true now except the lack of competition and boring racing is due to flawed rules giving one team a free pass.

These new rules and regs were agreed upon about UNANIMOUSLY 3 years ago. How is this giving 1 team a free pass? It's amazing your keyboard doesn't self destruct from all this bile you're typing out.

Are you just gearing up for a constant bile of excessive moaning and whining whenever Mercedes wins a race this season by delivering the best machinery and having the best drivers?

I am not sure what the teams agreement more than three years ago has to do with the rules being good, bad or otherwise.

All you need to do is look at the results of the actual implementation to see that they have led to one overwhelmingly dominant car and its competitors without any means to respond. On track it has produced predictable, boring racing and here we sit today knowing the results of 2015 before testing has even wrapped up!

Fans are leaving and in response the fractured governing committee can only come up with banning helmet designs. The future for F1 doesn't look good.

And that's all down to Mercedes being so mean and producing a better engine? I think not. F1's problems are many , don't blame a successful team with popular drivers for turning fans away.Mercedes have brought fans in by the million. #MercedesMillion

If RC was less polite she would be telling you not to blame Merc for your wet dream star Seb getting his satin pants pulled down and spanked on global primetime by the grinning barbecue boy

[RyRy]

On track it has produced predictable, boring racing and here we sit today knowing the results of 2015 before testing has even wrapped up!

What... are you nuts? We saw some fantastic racing last year even with Mercedes dominating. A stand out race for me was Bahrain which in my opinion was one of the best races in the last 10 years.

[overboost]

The rules aren't flawed, they're there for a reason. Two manufactures produced inferior engines despite being given lots of time to prepare. If you feel the racing is being ruined , or your team isn't doing very well, that's the reason. They made bad engines. That's not the rules fault, its the engineers who made the engines fault. Didn't do well enough. But at least everyone had a chance to get it right, unlike the four years of flexing red bulls, and yet then you didn't feel things were boring? That's very odd.

The other teams were free to compete with the Red Bulls unlike now where the engine rules are the stalling any fightback by the other manufacturers.

The last half of 2013 was indeed boring but that I do believe was brought on by the others giving up on 2013 and focusing on the new formula coming in 2014. It made for a boring season as there was no competition. The same is true now except the lack of competition and boring racing is due to flawed rules giving one team a free pass.

These new rules and regs were agreed upon about UNANIMOUSLY 3 years ago. How is this giving 1 team a free pass? It's amazing your keyboard doesn't self destruct from all this bile you're typing out.

Are you just gearing up for a constant bile of excessive moaning and whining whenever Mercedes wins a race this season by delivering the best machinery and having the best drivers?

I am not sure what the teams agreement more than three years ago has to do with the rules being good, bad or otherwise.

All you need to do is look at the results of the actual implementation to see that they have led to one overwhelmingly dominant car and its competitors without any means to respond. On track it has produced predictable, boring racing and here we sit today knowing the results of 2015 before testing has even wrapped up!

Fans are leaving and in response the fractured governing committee can only come up with banning helmet designs. The future for F1 doesn't look good.

And that's all down to Mercedes being so mean and producing a better engine? I think not. F1's problems are many , don't blame a successful team with popular drivers for turning fans away.Mercedes have brought fans in by the million. #MercedesMillion

If RC was less polite she would be telling you not to blame Merc for your wet dream star Seb getting his satin pants pulled down and spanked on global primetime by the grinning barbecue boy

See you just can't seem to put it together Mr. Cook and in your rush for a putdown you wind up off the mark and making a fool of yourself.

As you should know imo Ricciardo is the stand out 2014 driver and rated by fans and Autosport as the best driver in F1. Having the brightest light suffer in a non competitive car as less deserving drivers with a 2 sec advantage cruise to wins is a huge missed opportunity for the series. Fans want to see a competitive series not a rules race or a gas mileage competition.

You should aspire to be as polite and respectful as RC.

[CookinFlat6]

Yes, fans of Sebs foreskin want to see a single driver in a team proven to be cheats win the title with many races left, and then spnd the year after watching him unable to drive around a corner without an illegal car. And once Red Bull transferred the illegal gadgets from Seb to Ricc - hey presto Ricss getting penalised for cheating whilst driving faster than his teammate

Interesting how the same F1 yardsticks that claimed Seb was a great are now claiming Ricc is a great, and conveniently forgetting that, like Seb (getting spanked by Webber when they had equal cars), before Ricc got the illegal gadgets on his car he was spanked by JEV who is not good enough for a seat on the 2015 grid

The proof that the Red Bull 'proven cheat gadgets' such as flexi wings, cockpit devices and illegal fuel flow are transferred to whichever driver is willing to use the knee pads when Mr Helmet is around is by looking at the new number 1 driver in the team. Other teams like Mclaren and Merc splash the cash to get drivers who do not need cheat gadgets, but only Red Bull can pluck anyone from kindergarten and hey presto - they are champions

Since the regs changed Red Bull have shown that they are no good without the stuff they were caught cheating with (which is why decent regs were brought back)

And guess who wants to stifle development of the new rules that ALL the engine makers have approved over and over - yup the cheating Red Bull team, they want regs that allow a car to go fastest despite having the weakest engine and drivers and when they are caught cheating once in a while - well they can simply point to their ""great"" drivers, who can come from karts and instantly win in cars that are illegal

mate, I am not in the mood to give idiots a schooling, so I will leave it that that in case we attract one to join and clap you on the back.

its strange how some F1 yardsticks go looking to be ridiculed and when someone eventually obliges them, then its that person that gets the blame by the nervous onlookers, its like penalising Merc for being so good

[sagi58]

... Other teams like Mclaren and Merc splash the cash to get drivers who do not need cheat gadgets...

Are we to assume you no longer consider Alonso a "cheat", just because McLaren has re-hired him?

[Hammer278]

The rules aren't flawed, they're there for a reason. Two manufactures produced inferior engines despite being given lots of time to prepare. If you feel the racing is being ruined , or your team isn't doing very well, that's the reason. They made bad engines. That's not the rules fault, its the engineers who made the engines fault. Didn't do well enough. But at least everyone had a chance to get it right, unlike the four years of flexing red bulls, and yet then you didn't feel things were boring? That's very odd.

The other teams were free to compete with the Red Bulls unlike now where the engine rules are the stalling any fightback by the other manufacturers.

The last half of 2013 was indeed boring but that I do believe was brought on by the others giving up on 2013 and focusing on the new formula coming in 2014. It made for a boring season as there was no competition. The same is true now except the lack of competition and boring racing is due to flawed rules giving one team a free pass.

These new rules and regs were agreed upon about UNANIMOUSLY 3 years ago. How is this giving 1 team a free pass? It's amazing your keyboard doesn't self destruct from all this bile you're typing out.

Are you just gearing up for a constant bile of excessive moaning and whining whenever Mercedes wins a race this season by delivering the best machinery and having the best drivers?

I am not sure what the teams agreement more than three years ago has to do with the rules being good, bad or otherwise.

All you need to do is look at the results of the actual implementation to see that they have led to one overwhelmingly dominant car and its competitors without any means to reasonably respond. On track it has produced predictable, boring racing and here we sit today knowing the results of 2015 before testing has even wrapped up!

Fans are leaving and in response the fractured governing committee can only come up with banning helmet designs! The future for F1 doesn't look good.

The reason we had a unanimous agreement in the first place is because the rules were considered good for the sport.

Blaming 1 team for coming up trumps over the rest and asking the rules to be reversed just looks stupid, pedantic, a complete sore loser attitude who prefers protecting the weak and lame passionates who talk more than race, rather than seeing the best of the best perform at their best while spanking the lame, in deserved fashion.

I'm sorry, but if you are of a loser attitude its best you turn off the sport now and switch to Nascar or something at your level of entertainment eg. Wipeout....you'd fit right in.

[racechick]

Having the brightest light suffer in a non competitive car as less deserving drivers with a 2 sec advantage cruise to wins is a huge missed opportunity .

Mercedes are in it to win it. They hire the best available, drivers and engineers. They have the best driver, they have Hamilton, and they have Nico to keep Hamilton honest.they are not a charity case, they do not need to employ'deserving' drivers. They've missed no opportunities, they've won two championships by doing what they do. Hiring the best.