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[1Lemon]

Well as far as we know by certain, they were the fastest laps Merc have done.

Umm yeah, but if everyone else has also made their 'fastest laps' while holding back something, surely we can assume Merc have done the same?

Oh yeah absolutely, but if we reckon most teams were holding something back as they normally do in testing, speculating is pointless. 9 days until FP1 chaps/chapettes!

[CookinFlat6]

The thing is this, since last year we have heard of the Merc having a massive power advantage, we have heard of Ferrari having issues with fuel efficiency and power delivery, we have had rumours of Renault under funded and pushed for time.

We also know the advantages of designing the powertrain and chassis in tandem. It would go entirely against the grain for Merc to not have a big advantage over every other Merc engined car.

And if they had such a big advantage, how would they go about their business?

Exactly as they have till now, avoid showing their potential, test reliability to the point of failures, and only use enough power to confirm calculations and simulations.

And when the season starts? Like RBR, turn up the tap only when needed to open a gap etc, hide the full advantage but always somehow they will be fastest in everything, just about do the most mileage in testing, just about fastest 1 lap, and race pace

This is what we are seeing and will see. No matter what Williams etc do, Merc will somehow end up just enough ahead to win.

[spankyham]

The thing is this, since last year we have heard of the Merc having a massive power advantage, we have heard of Ferrari having issues with fuel efficiency and power delivery, we have had rumours of Renault under funded and pushed for time.

We also know the advantages of designing the powertrain and chassis in tandem. It would go entirely against the grain for Merc to not have a big advantage over every other Merc engined car.

And if they had such a big advantage, how would they go about their business?

Exactly as they have till now, avoid showing their potential, test reliability to the point of failures, and only use enough power to confirm calculations and simulations.

And when the season starts? Like RBR, turn up the tap only when needed to open a gap etc, hide the full advantage but always somehow they will be fastest in everything, just about do the most mileage in testing, just about fastest 1 lap, and race pace

This is what we are seeing and will see. No matter what Williams etc do, Merc will somehow end up just enough ahead to win.

As much as you want to believe one engine will have a "massive" power advantage, I'm very confident that would and could never happen. Maybe, at a stretch, in the first part of the season it could be a few % points. I'd give up 10% power for driveability and areo df any day. So power will not win the title.

This year the title will be shaped in the first part of the season by reliability (teams with most laps have a huge advantage here). As the season develops beyond this point the titles will be shaped by aeros. IMO Williams are well placed for both parts of the season and could turn this early advantage into titles with a bit of luck and continued development.

[Hammer278]

Can Williams match the Merc factory team in terms of development speed through an entire season? No freakin way. The only customer team which has a shot in terms of resources is McLaren. Williams and FI would do well to just about keep up and even that is not going to happen, no matter how good their car is right now.

[CookinFlat6]

As much as you want to believe one engine will have a "massive" power advantage, I'm very confident that would and could never happen. Maybe, at a stretch, in the first part of the season it could be a few % points. I'd give up 10% power for driveability and areo df any day. So power will not win the title.

I dont mean 1 engine will be the decider. It will be more the integration of the engine and chassis, the resultant drievability, efficiency in delivering the power to the tyres, Aero advantages from packaging, and finally beter use of the ERS systems in concert, for harvesting, economy, traction, etc

This is where the Merc could easily be seconds faster than other Merc engine cars

We will soon find out, all im saying is so far everything points to this situation. We will find that the Merc is always just a bit faster than Williams or whoever else comes closest. This advantage will always seem small and fleeting but once in a while Nico will get carried away and screw the pooch and pull out a massive gap in a few laps, say to get back right behind Lewis after some small mishap

[1Lemon]

By the looks of it, the Williams does look slightly easier to drive than the Merc, or at least they are pushing less; but the difference is negligible anyway as both look like the tightest more precise cars on the testing grid.

Or maybe it's because Williams have the best driver in Bo77as

[CookinFlat6]

I have become less sure of Bo77as recently. If he was the real deal he should really be blowing Massa away even in testing. For example Maggiesson at McLaren already is faster than Button.
For me he will have to be trashing Massa early days to confirm the potential he might have

[CookinFlat6]

As much as you want to believe one engine will have a "massive" power advantage, I'm very confident that would and could never happen. Maybe, at a stretch, in the first part of the season it could be a few % points. I'd give up 10% power for driveability and areo df any day. So power will not win the title.

Also Spanks, whats so hard to believe that one engine could be10% up? Look at Renault, they are way behind on power, so why could Merc not be as ahead?
Maybe they all produce the same power, but Merc can deploy most of it without overheating or running out of fuel. In that case its academic what peak power they can all produce what would matter is how high each could run their engines and still make the end of the race on the fuel.

In this respect why couldnt the best solution be 10% above the next?

[spankyham]

As much as you want to believe one engine will have a "massive" power advantage, I'm very confident that would and could never happen. Maybe, at a stretch, in the first part of the season it could be a few % points. I'd give up 10% power for driveability and areo df any day. So power will not win the title.

Also Spanks, whats so hard to believe that one engine could be10% up? Look at Renault, they are way behind on power, so why could Merc not be as ahead?
Maybe they all produce the same power, but Merc can deploy most of it without overheating or running out of fuel. In that case its academic what peak power they can all produce what would matter is how high each could run their engines and still make the end of the race on the fuel.

In this respect why couldnt the best solution be 10% above the next?

That concept makes a lot more sense. One team having a slightly more fuel efficient ICE and perhaps also being slightly cooler and being better at putting the available power down - those together could make a big difference. But, remember, the engines are homologated and the rules of homologation are designed and oriented to equalize the ICE's. So, whatever advantage a team has here won't endure. Aeros - that's another thing

[CookinFlat6]

The engines may be homlogated, but the teams expertise in getting the 3 systems working together to deliver max effective power and driveability and economy will be eachs trump card and that could result in usable 10% difference all year

[1Lemon]

Do we know if Renault are down on power? They haven't had enough running to prove this

[What's Burning?]

Looks like a long season ahead for RBR.

ESPNF1 Red Bull's Helmut Marko says the first race of the season is coming two months too early for his team.

Red Bull's pre-season testing was plagued by reliability issues and it has completed less than a third of the mileage of favourites Mercedes ahead of the first race in Australia. At the final test it failed to complete a full race simulation and has yet to show one-lap pace on a par with the front runners.

"The opening race comes at least two months too early for us," Marko told Servus TV. "This is a very serious matter. At the moment we do not know in what time frame it will be possible to catch up, or if it is possible at all."

[LRW]

Im thinking maybe RB should of started on this car a little earlier?

Maybe 5 is their unlucky number...?

[CookinFlat6]

Do we know if Renault are down on power? They haven't had enough running to prove this

Lemon, the amount of power they have is irrelevant, what's relevant is how much they can get to the road without overheating or running out of petrol. So if they have to stick to 70% output for these reasons then they are down

Which is what we have seen

[spankyham]

Lauda reveals Mercedes V6 engine delivers '580hp'

Niki Lauda has revealed that Mercedes' new turbo V6 engine produces "about 580" horse power.

It is a rare admission in the highly-secretive world of formula one, but field-leading Mercedes' F1 chairman wasn't giving the whole game away.

Asked to put a number on the German marque's early-season superiority, Lauda told Austrian Servus TV: "The fuel engine is about 580 horse power.

"Then there is the electrical side," he added, without elaborating.

It is known that the energy-recovery or 'ERS' side of the 'power unit' adds 160 horse power to the equation, but Lauda's figures just made fellow Austrian Dr Helmut Marko - of the struggling world champions Red Bull - grin.

"Interesting data," Marko smiled. "I would be happy if I had 580hp." This leads to believe that the power of the Renault engine of the RB10 is quite lower than that.