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[F1er]

Well where does an exhaust end? where the gas reaches the air? If the gas touches bodywork then technically it hasnt reached its end and said bodywork is apart of the exhaust system right? then blown diffusers are illegal.

The difference is, they've only got 2 exits... do you see what i mean?

What if the octopus is detached from the pipe exit by even half a mm? what then?

Maca will always get the stick from a corrupt FIA,it's nothing new.While other teams' loopholes are turned a blind eye FIA makes their special rulebook for Maca

It's still directing exhaust gases though. And there are [i]STILL more than two clear exits. I guess exhaust 'exit' is defined as the point where the gases leave an enclosed space, ie one that has material fully surrounding it. That's what i'd class it as but it's more important what the stewards might class it as i guess. I'm just trying to explain why such a system might be outlawed...[/i]

Your sob story regarding McLaren's FIA treatment is somewhat unfounded because if it really were true, then they would have simply banned the f-duct last season and forced McLaren to completely rethink a large part of their aero package, rather than letting them have a nice straight line speed advantage for a decent portion of the season!

All this debate, i dunno why we're all getting so worked up over what is still merely internet forum speculation really

Then by that notion gasses exiting via starter hole (RBR,Ferrari) it's illegal as well? Wouldn't that count as a third exit?

All speculation agree but we dont have to stop talking about it

[scotty]

Then by that notion gasses exiting via starter hole (RBR,Ferrari) it's illegal as well? Wouldn't that count as a third exit?

All speculation agree but we dont have to stop talking about it

Not at all, endless talk about anything F1 related is keeping me going for the next week!

As for RB and Ferrari, as far as i am aware they both run a very similar exhaust system:



The exhaust exit is at the lighter and more shiny shade of grey toward the rear of the floor, for anyone who might not already know. No starter hole exits for them... AFAIK nobody is directly using the starter hole for an EDB effect this season because steps were taken to outlaw them. Perhaps someone has more detail on that they can share. The purpose of the Ferrari and RBR current configuration is to try and get as close as possible to the effect of a blown diffuser from last season, i think.

[stonemonkey]

Does the extra air intake above the driver have anything to do with their exhaust?

[What's Burning?]

Does the extra air intake above the driver have anything to do with their exhaust?

No, but it does have some to do with blowing over the lower portion of the rear wing.

[stonemonkey]

Does the extra air intake above the driver have anything to do with their exhaust?

No, but it does have some to do with blowing over the lower portion of the rear wing.

What's known about that?

[What's Burning?]

Does the extra air intake above the driver have anything to do with their exhaust?

No, but it does have some to do with blowing over the lower portion of the rear wing.

What's known about that?

Here's a good write up on the technical aspects for the RB7

[scotty]

The intake above the driver's head is for cooling, but most teams recycle the air that has passed through to get aero benefits, like WB says, Red Bull use it to pass air over the lower 'beam' wing at the back through that huge outlet you can see here:

[What's Burning?]

The intake above the driver's head is for cooling, but most teams recycle the air that has passed through to get aero benefits, like WB says, Red Bull use it to pass air over the lower 'beam' wing at the back through that huge outlet you can see here:

HUGE being the operative word! It's bigger than any other car on this year's grid!

EDIT: ogiginally I though that it was a compartment where Webber was to keep his Aussie rules football ball stored

[scotty]

HUGE being the operative word! It's bigger than any other car on this year's grid!

That is an oldish pic though, later on in testing they made it smaller. Ferrari's cooling outlet is quite odd in that it runs all the way down the spine of the car, it's not quite as clear what benefits it brings them though (but obviously there must be some!).

[What's Burning?]

HUGE being the operative word! It's bigger than any other car on this year's grid!

That is an oldish pic though, later on in testing they made it smaller. Ferrari's cooling outlet is quite odd in that it runs all the way down the spine of the car, it's not quite as clear what benefits it brings them though (but obviously there must be some!).

Actually looking forward to see what makes it to grid next weekend. Also it'll be interesting to see what gets tested on Friday practice since I expect some additional changes since the last Barcelona test. I'm giddy with anticipation.

[bud]

I reckon theres an afterburner in there its that big

[spankyham]

This link is to an article and a good video on the MP4-26 Octopus exhaust and a cool video on Pyrosic, the material the O-box is supposed to be made of.

The article is below.

Here's the video from the link:-
[youtube]XVWw1ASOtk8[/youtube]


Mclaren’s MP4-26 “octopus” exhaust solution

19 Mar

Mclaren’s “octopus” exhaust is in the spotlight for todays post. Let’s have a look at what technology’s are behind this solution, and where Mclaren are with this to-date. We will also look at the legality’s of the exhausts exits under the current rules.

Lets start with a quick example of why teams are trying so hard to create extra down-force with exhausts gases… I am going to make this as simple as possible… The more down-force created by the diffuser means near zero to minimal drag, the other way to gain down-force is to run a bigger/steeper angle on the rear wings which creates drag.

Apparently the exhausts are routed to a ceramic box behind the gearbox, which divides into many smaller pipes, exiting at many points in the floor and spreading the ‘exhaust blown’ effect across the under-body of the car to maximise its potential, thus creating more down-force.

To create a exhaust that produced the kind of down-force needed, Mclaren is thought to have used a technology /product called Pyrosic (see video) for the exhausts to work at the temperatures required.

The FIA have clarified the use of Pyrosic: It is not allowed as an exhausts solution for cost saving reasons, this creates problems for Mclaren as they are thought to have designed there octopus exhaust solution with this in mind.

What are one of the advantages of running the risk of the Mclaren exhausts solution? One advantage is Mclaren can run a smaller top wing-flap. Why does this smaller top wing interest Mclaren? A smaller wing creates less down-force which in-turn allows for less drag, which means greater efficiency with the use of the adjustable rear wing when opened and even closed, but this is only viable when generating a sufficient amount of down-force from the deffuser.

Mark Hughes proposed McLarens ‘octopus’ exhaust in Autosport Magazine this week.

He says the “U” bend leads into an exhaust box beneath the gearbox, this box then splits into several exits blowing the the rear of the car.

The regs state: “5.6 Exhaust systems: Engine exhaust systems may incorporate no more than two exits.” An “exit” would of course be the point where the gases exit the exhaust pipe into the air flow around it – not the point where the initial exhaust leads into some enclosed box inside the car.

The rules say one exit per bank, perhaps the octopus “box” is not considered part of the exhaust! Or thats Mclaren’s take on the rule.

The definition of exhaust outlets is the key here. If McLaren term the exhaust as the “tubular” metal exhaust pipes, then the chamber as “bodywork” because its constructed from different material (Pyrosic – a Glass Ceramic Composite). Then the chamber can have multiple outlets, as long as it only has two inlets.

So why is the exhausts a reliability a problem for Mclaren? The problem with the exhausts is apparently the shape and length, as they are not round, when hot they are deforming to a circular shape, (much like a ballon will always be round) and the length just can’t cope with the stress/vibrations. One very simple solution could be to run a water jacket in the exhaust plenum to stop over heating.

McLaren’s team boss Martin Whitmarsh has admitted that the squad probably took things too far in some elements of their design process this year.

The MP4-26 features some dramatic and radical concepts, but so far hasn’t been either fast or reliable.

Whitmarsh stands by the decisions his team took, even though they haven’t paid off so far.

Friday practice 1 will see Mclaren running something close to a test session, as they desperately try to get to grips with the radical MP4-26 and the octopus exhaust.

Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button will be sweating on the solutions their team brings to Melbourne to gain the desired performance step they need to catch the top teams.

[What's Burning?]

^^ I beat you on the video by a couple of days... It's an amazing demonstration, not just because of the heat that it can take, but because of how quickly it dissipates the heat! This is a direct evolution of the ceramic heat shield tiles used on the space shuttle for re-entry into the atmosphere.

But based on the info from Scarb's site, and this article... the "octupus" seems like it is what is being done since no forward facing exhaust had been seen on the MP4-26... however, there is actually no definitive proof that is what is being done by McLaren. This though does seem like the most logical explanation.

[spankyham]

Missed your post of the video, it is very impressive.

I guess everyone is pretty quiet on the subject because no-one really knows for sure. Hurry up weekend!!!

[What's Burning?]

Missed your post of the video, it is very impressive.

I guess everyone is pretty quiet on the subject because no-one really knows for sure. Hurry up weekend!!!

don't rush... just learn to savor the anticipation!!!