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[AKR]

They change at every race that is the problem! there is no consistency they need Charlie Whiting to be Race Director as well as chief steward.

but the morons who were the stewards at Belgium were

Picture 3.png

And none of the Stewards were Italian....... So stop blaming us and calling us cheats.

[Alien_SAP_Fiend]

Watch this:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii ... kimi_sport

0.56 Hamilton storms into the corner, half a car length BEHIND Kimi
0.57 realises that he won’t make it, cuts the chicane,
1.00 engine note indicates he does NOT lift off to let Kimi past, he’s accelerating through the gears
1.06 gets behind Kimi long enough for a tow
1.07 immediately storms past him again into the next corner.

Ballsy stuff and technically, he did give the place back, but he did it only long enough for a tow into the next corner - advantage Lewis.

Incidentally, you can see that Kimi’s spin later (3.10) is due to a back marker on the racing line.

[Matkins]

Watch this:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii ... kimi_sport

0.56 Hamilton storms into the corner, half a car length BEHIND Kimi
0.57 realises that he won’t make it, cuts the chicane,
1.00 engine note indicates he does NOT lift off to let Kimi past, he’s accelerating through the gears
1.06 gets behind Kimi long enough for a tow
1.07 immediately storms past him again into the next corner.

Ballsy stuff and technically, he did give the place back, but he did it only long enough for a tow into the next corner - advantage Lewis.

Incidentally, you can see that Kimi’s spin later (3.10) is due to a back marker on the racing line.

Lets take a look at a more detailed analysis:

0.54 Hamilton beats Raikkonen on the brakes which gives him a temporary lead
0.56 Raikonen takes best racing line into the corner and defends track possition
0.57 Hamilton decides to cut the chican rather than driving over a curb and possibly colliding with Raikkonen
0.59 Hamilton rejoins the track ahead of Raikkonen (Mclaren in garage are immediately onto the radio to Hamilton telling him to give the place back)
1.00 NOTE THIS: Hamilton's car is slow, very little "momentum".
1.00 - 1.06 Hamilton accelerates at partial throttle, not full. Giving Raikkonen the oportunity to catch and regain the lead. Which he does.
1.07 Raikkonen foolishly swerves to the left hand side of the track which hands the racing line to Hamilton.
1.09 Hamilton has out broke the poorly handling Ferrari, and retakes the lead (legaly this time) into the hairpin.
1.12 You can't see on this video, but at this point Raikonen has ran into the back of Hamilton, possibly in an attempt to make the Mclaren spin, but as far as we are aware this has not been investigated. At this point the Mclaren team are onto the radio to Charlie Whiting, asking weather the move was good. Whiting confirms that the move was good and so the race continues.

2 hours later: three stewards made the decision that the move was illegal and issued a drive through penalty to car 22.

It doesn't get any dodgier than that folks. If hamilton ever manages to win a WDC despite all the penalties he''ll have to take then he wont be able to cellebrate for a few months untill every single racing incident he's ever made since karting is scrutinized frame by frame.

[Alien_SAP_Fiend]

"0.56 Raikonen takes best racing line into the corner and defends track possition"

er, no. Hamilton is on the OUTSIDE of the previous corner and then finds himself behind Kimi on the next corner. He's carrying so much speed that he can't follow Kimi through the corner and so decides to cut it.

"1.07 Raikkonen foolishly swerves to the left hand side of the track which hands the racing line to Hamilton."

You don't see that as Kimi trying to stop Lewis from drafting him? Lewis gives the place back for all of a second, in which time he gets a tow and then immediately pulls out again. Place returned, advantage not.

"1.12 You can't see on this video, but at this point Raikonen has ran into the back of Hamilton, possibly in an attempt to make the Mclaren spin,"

LOL, you think Kimi was trying to ram Lewis? With a carbon fibre nose cone? You think he should be investigated for trying to wreck his own car? Is that the sound of a barrel being scraped?

Nice try, mate. I hear Tony Blair's looking for a new Spin Doctor, perhaps you should apply!

[Mikep99]

Trulli makes some valid points I think.

Trulli: Hamilton gained an advantage
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70435
By Jonathan Noble and Michele Lostia
Jarno Trulli, Toyota, Spa 2008Jarno Trulli says he has no doubts that Lewis Hamilton did gain an advantage by cutting the chicane at the Belgian Grand Prix.

As the controversy rages over whether the race stewards were right to hand down a 25-second penalty for Hamilton's driving, Trulli thinks that the McLaren driver did benefit from missing out the final corner.

"In my opinion Hamilton got an advantage by cutting the chicane," Trulli told Gazzetta dello Sport. "Had he stayed on the road, he wouldn't have had the speed to overtake the Ferrari.

"In the same way at Monza someone could cut the first chicane, catch a rival's draft, and overtake him under braking at Roggia.

"When you attack on the outside, you do it at your own risk, because who's on the inside has the right to do the corner. If there isn't enough room, then you lift.

"Had there been a wall there, instead of the surfaced escape route, would Lewis have attacked anyway? Had there been gravel, he wouldn't have had the chance to attack when rejoining the track because of dirty tyres."

McLaren are due to decide today whether or not to press ahead with their plans to appeal Hamilton's penalty, which dropped him from first to third in the race results.

Also looks like McLaren have given up on the appeal

McLaren set to give up challenge to overturn Hamilton's penalty loss at Spa
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-1053795/McLaren-set-challenge-overturn-Hamiltons-penalty-loss-Spa.html?ITO=1490

McLaren are today expected to announce that they will not appeal the controversial ruling which denied Lewis Hamilton victory at Sunday's Belgian Grand Prix.

The British team have been weighing up their next move since the race stewards adjudged that Hamilton gained an advantage by cutting the chicane at Spa.

Although the retrospective 25 second penalty, which moved Hamilton back to third place, caused uproar throughout the sport, McLaren feel they have no choice but to let the matter rest.

They doubt that the FIA court of appeal would even deem their objection admissible. A drive-through penalty cannot be appealed, and this punishment is effectively its equivalent because the offence occurred in the closing laps and the sanction could not be imposed during the race.

Appealing would, therefore, be a fruitless and costly exercise for McLaren, serving to distract them as they plot their world championship challenge over the remaining five rounds.

Hamilton takes a two-point cushion over.Ferarri's Felipe Massa, who was ultimately awarded victory in Belgium, into this weekend's Italian Grand Prix.

McLaren will issue a statement before tonight's midnight appeal deadline confirming their decision.

[Matkins]

"0.56 Raikonen takes best racing line into the corner and defends track possition"

er, no. Hamilton is on the OUTSIDE of the previous corner and then finds himself behind Kimi on the next corner. He's carrying so much speed that he can't follow Kimi through the corner and so decides to cut it.

"1.07 Raikkonen foolishly swerves to the left hand side of the track which hands the racing line to Hamilton."

You don't see that as Kimi trying to stop Lewis from drafting him? Lewis gives the place back for all of a second, in which time he gets a tow and then immediately pulls out again. Place returned, advantage not.

"1.12 You can't see on this video, but at this point Raikonen has ran into the back of Hamilton, possibly in an attempt to make the Mclaren spin,"

LOL, you think Kimi was trying to ram Lewis? With a carbon fibre nose cone? You think he should be investigated for trying to wreck his own car? Is that the sound of a barrel being scraped?

Nice try, mate. I hear Tony Blair's looking for a new Spin Doctor, perhaps you should apply!

Ha.

Do you understand the physics of slip streaming? You need to be in the slip stream for more than "all of a second" to gain a significant advantage. Other requirements are to be travelling at extremely high velocity, ie; the straight after Eu Rouge. Not the small start/finish straight where the cars do not reach top speed by any measure. See any other slip streaming happen there, ever?

Where you say "He's carrying so much speed that he can't follow Kimi through the corner and so decides to cut it."
Watch the footage: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii ... kimi_sport
What speed? At the point he decides to cut the corner he's going slow enough to take the corner, the reason he can't take the corner is because there's a Ferrari in the way.

And finaly, if you watch enough motor sport you will know it only takes a tap from behind to spin a car, especially in wet/damp conditions. And although the nose of an F1 car is very brakeable its not made of china. The reason they use carbon fiber is because it is STRONG. And it can certainly survive a tap. I'm not saying it was defintely Raikkonen's intention to spin Hamilton. What i am saying is this is possible. But obviously not possible from your naive point of view.

[bud]

the farce will stand! this might be my last year of F1 im sick of this Euro trash

[AKR]

the farce will stand! this might be my last year of F1 im sick of this Euro trash

Euro Trash? Bud you have lost the plot. So this means that your loved McLaren and Lewis Hamilton are Euro trash too give they are British and Britain is European. You need to get a grip on yourself.

[scotty]

It is worth reading James Allen's race review - surprisingly objective views from him.

Just when you thought Formula 1 would be basking in the glory of one of the most thrilling climaxes to a grand prix in recent memory, a cloud of controversy hangs over the sport once again after Lewis Hamilton was stripped of his Belgian Grand Prix victory.

In the first of two parts to his post-race Spa verdict, ITV Sport commentator James Allen analyses in detail the controversial moment when Hamilton crossed the Bus Stop chicane, and explains what happened on the run to La Source and how this influenced the stewards' judgement.


An extraordinary grand prix with one of the most exciting finishes ever has been given a different complexion by the stewards’ decision to penalise Lewis Hamilton for taking an advantage from cutting a chicane.

There is not doubt that this is a very big call by the stewards and a lot of unbiased observers among the media and the public will find it hard to understand.

It takes a lot to unpick the results of a grand prix, especially one which would otherwise probably be long remembered as a classic and a great advert for the sport.


The controversial call

I’ve watched the incident many times now and Hamilton cuts the chicane because he was pushed out wide – quite fairly – by Kimi Raikkonen; his trajectory makes it hard for him to follow the Ferrari around the corner and, faced with going on the grass, he chose instead to cut the chicane.

It’s a deliberate act on his part, amazing speed of thought, but he clearly chooses the least worst option.

He is therefore in front coming out of the chicane, but crucially he is on a line he would not have been on had he taken the chicane normally.

Although he clearly hands back the lead to Kimi as they cross the start/finish line and the timing sheets show you that Kimi clearly crossed the line first, he is on him immediately afterwards.

And this is the nub of the stewards’ argument.

Raikkonen’s car did get fully in front of Hamilton’s – his speed across the start/finish line was 212km/h, compared to 206km/h for Hamilton – but Lewis immediately regains the momentum.

Kimi then does a kind of double block on him before Lewis sticks his car up the inside into La Source.

The speed differential

Lewis was much faster than Kimi at that point of the race because the McLaren keeps heat in its tyres better in those conditions, as we saw in Silverstone, especially on the harder compound.

So Kimi was finished anyway. Lewis had him; he was always going to get him before the finish.

The stewards clearly felt that he didn’t give back enough of the advantage he gained from cutting the chicane.

Watching it over and over again you can see what they mean; it’s a very delicately balanced call.

But you have to take account of the performance difference which existed between the two cars at that point anyway.

On a normal dry track, Lewis’s gesture of easing off by 6km/h would have put Kimi well ahead by La Source.

It’s just that the Ferrari was not able to take much advantage of Hamilton’s gesture, so it seemed an insufficient gesture.

McLaren checked at the time with race director Charlie Whiting that they had done the right thing, and according to the team he told them they had.

But the stewards disagreed. They felt he should have dropped in behind Kimi and had a go at him later.

He was much faster and would have got him down the straight after Eau Rouge anyway.

But he’s a racer and he went for it as soon as he thought he’d negated his unfair advantage from cutting the chicane.


Lewis's racer's instinct

The frustration for neutrals in the paddock – including many members of other teams, who are outraged by this decision, no doubt like many members of the public – is that this is racing after all.

Hamilton was impetuous to get on with it, as Damon Hill was in Adelaide in 1994 when Michael Schumacher hit the wall.

These are racers who seize the moment, which is why we love them.

It is that killer instinct which raises them above the rest of us normal people and makes us tune in to watch them in our millions.

But the stewards wanted a clearer sign that Hamilton recognised he had gained an unfair advantage.


The fall-out

A 25-second penalty drops him from first to third and cuts his championship lead to just two points with five races to go.

Many people will find this decision hard to justify and will inevitably question it in the light of Valencia, where Felipe Massa and Ferrari were convicted of unsafe release from the pit stop (an offence which normally attracts a drive-through penalty) and yet were merely fined while Massa kept the 10 points.

These are big calls, like a referee in soccer giving or not giving a penalty, which changes the result of a match.

But a referee has to make a decision on the spot. Here the stewards took a few hours to review all the evidence. And there are some unfortunate perceptions of F1 being aired as a result.

I hope that the outcome of this championship is clear enough either way that it does not hinge on this decision.

[Mikep99]

I am surprised by James view.
But I agree with him that hopefully the WDC has a clear cut winner by the end and is not decided by this incident.
Either way I think F1 is the big looser at the moment, that race deserved a better ending.

[Big Azza]

BULL SH*T!!!!!!

I cannot believe my ears. I honestly cannot believe what I'm hearing about the above post! (If AKR beats me to a reply, then it's the one before... Hi AKR we haven't had a fight in ages... )

How convenient... Hamilton has been given a Potentially Title Changing decision that he cannot appeal.

I'm trying to remain calm here and not make any rash decisions:

1) Hopefully Monza is a wet race.
2) I - who love competition and what not, and have never said anything ever like this, wish for all of the misfortune in the world on Ferrari.* Although - then again, if the world ends tomorrow because of the Big-Bang science experiment, I hope Ferrari get sucked in first, before Hamilton does...**
3) Would like to propose a Fan Strike...

You know how hard it is to find McLaren Formula One Merchandise today? It's all Ferrari, Ferrari, Ferrari. Well guess what, Max, finally, for the First Time since Ayrton Senna, the face of Formula One doesn't drive a Ferrari.....

I'm so furious. I've made so many sacrifices to watch this sport - too many, and risky ones too. What a waste. What a bunch of sh*t this sport. Screw it!!!

I'm just gonna follow MotoGP and V8 Supercars for a while. I will NOT be watching the race at Monza. Yes, I'm gonna put the MotoGP ahead of it, which starts a few hours later (4am here.). I've almost finished the process of applying for my L-Plate. (Nfortunately, I'm only going for a scooter...)

*Although, a lot of bad luck has followed Ferrari Lately...
**What a joke science is...


EDIT:] Wow, Mikey, where did you come from?

[bud]

the farce will stand! this might be my last year of F1 im sick of this Euro trash

Euro Trash? Bud you have lost the plot. So this means that your loved McLaren and Lewis Hamilton are Euro trash too give they are British and Britain is European. You need to get a grip on yourself.

yes i know the UK is in Europe. but its quite obvious Europeans do not know how to run an unbiased sport!

and i only ever got a grip of myself when i was single

[AKR]

BULL SH*T!!!!!!

I cannot believe my ears. I honestly cannot believe what I'm hearing about the above post! (If AKR beats me to a reply, then it's the one before... Hi AKR we haven't had a fight in ages... )

Dammit! Why am I always the target! The Stewards decision isn;t my fault!

[Big Azza]

I dunno AKR. Anyone can be a steward.

Yeah, that's right - you are ALL suspects....

[Mikep99]

BULL SH*T!!!!!!

EDIT:] Wow, Mikey, where did you come from?

Simple solution.
Just tell you man hammy to stop making mistakes & then there won't be an controversy.

I have a new idea for a car horse float. Do you think it will sell ?