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[McLaren Fan]

I'm sure Senna would have been quite happy to dump the Mclaren team and go somewhere else if it meant he would win more titles.

True, but Senna openly stated this. That's the difference between Hamilton and Senna. With Senna you knew that if the car wasn't up to standard, it would not be long before he was on his way. And with Senna you knew he would drive a hard bargain, and that he would use any means necessary to secure the best deal for himself. Hamilton, however, pretends he's as nice as pie. I'd respect him a lot more if he'd stop pissing about with his "nice boy" act, and I'd respect his fans a hell of a lot more if they'd acknowledge that Hamilton is not all sweetness and light.

The partnership between Lewis and Ron is two way. Lewis wanted to leave for Williams probably because he felt that Ron wasn't holding up his end of the bargain. I fault no man for wanting to be a champion and doing whatever is necessary (within reason) to win.

Hamilton's situation at McLaren was a hell of a lot different from any other driver. Alonso, for instance, had no previous ties with McLaren. Hamilton, however, was mentored and paid for by McLaren. Ron Dennis in particular a hell of a lot of time and energy in Hamilton from when he was a young boy. Hamilton, therefore, has enormous debts of loyalty to McLaren and Ron Dennis. It's understandable that Hamilton wanted to get in a Formula One car as soon as possible and was unhappy when he was told to wait another season. In that case, however, what you don't do is sneak off behind your mentor's back and try to negotiate a secret deal with another team. You talk things through with your mentor and discuss the issues. That was the very least he owned McLaren. As it worked out, McLaren were right to wait another year on Hamilton anyway. Hamilton, therefore, should shut his face and listen to the people who know best.

Business is business, I'm not naive and can see that, but there has to be an element of trust and mutual respect between partners. Hamilton, so far, has not learned this. If I were a team boss, that would put me off offering him a drive.

Finally, using Senna's behaviour as a weapon against me in a debate is ineffective, for unlike Hamilton's cronies, I acknowledge my favourite drivers faults and not just their strengths. Senna was a brilliant driver, got on well with people at his teams and cared for his fellow drivers. That said, he could be a right bar steward at times.

[bud]

the whole Hamilton Williams thing is blown completely out of proportion.
this was during his F3 days i believe, Lewis and McLaren Mercedes had a fallout of sorts with the latter threatening not to fund him.
So in tern the Hamiltons looked elsewhere for funding... with Williams Patrick Head claiming BMW did not want to fund him while Dr Mario suggested that BMW didnt even bother because Hamilton was firmly in Mclarens hands, probably knowing the fallout was just brief which is was! the rest is history!

[McLaren Fan]

the whole Hamilton Williams thing is blown completely out of proportion.
this was during his F3 days i believe, Lewis and McLaren Mercedes had a fallout of sorts with the latter threatening not to fund him.
So in tern the Hamiltons looked elsewhere for funding... with Williams Patrick Head claiming BMW did not want to fund him while Dr Mario suggested that BMW didnt even bother because Hamilton was firmly in Mclarens hands, probably knowing the fallout was just brief which is was! the rest is history!

I don't think it has been blown out of proportion. Trying to get through to Hamilton's acolytes that he is not an angel and is just like a lot of other drivers is impossible. Is it history? Not really, as far as I'm concerned, for his contract negotiation methods at the end of last season leave a lot to be desired and still show he is prepared to secure the best deal for himself regardless of whatever loyalties he may have to people and teams. All I want to do is cut out the "golden boy" bullpoo about Hamilton.

[bud]

i dont consider myself a Hamilton acolyte but at that point in his career there were no guarantees he would even make it to F1 so if your funding is going to be cut from someone i think its only natural for any racer wishing to make a career in motorsport and in particular F1 to look elsewhere for funding

ask any young racer out there what is the most important thing aside from skill in making it in motorsport and it will be money!

[McLaren Fan]

i dont consider myself a Hamilton acolyte but at that point in his career there were no guarantees he would even make it to F1 so if your funding is going to be cut from someone i think its only natural for any racer wishing to make a career in motorsport and in particular F1 to look elsewhere for funding

ask any young racer out there what is the most important thing aside from skill in making it in motorsport and it will be money!

The issue was nothing to do with funding. McLaren wanted Hamilton to stay in the Formula Three Euroseries for another season, but Hamilton (and his father) wanted him to move up a formula. As a result, the two serpents slipped off to Williams-BMW and tried to negotiate the same funding etc. that McLaren were providing Hamilton. Williams were supportive of the idea, but BMW weren't. The deal fell through because BMW didn't want to fund Hamilton. Had BMW have supported the idea, Hamilton would have been some no hoper, gallivanting round in the middle of the grid, and McLaren would have been left high and dry, having paid millions to develop a driver they don't have racing for them.

[KyrosV]

Isnt LH moving to/or has moved to Switzerland? tax dodging?

[bud]

Yeah Kyros Lewis has joined Alonso among others in dodging taxes in Switzerland!

i dont think they spent Millions on him during his career, they also partially funded Nico Rosberg. funding a driver is not the same as a contract that eventuates in a drive. there is no guarantees, and you cant be loyal if you want to make it. Sorry i just see it from the drivers eyes, ive switched karting chassis

[Stealthgate007]

So we know what Lewis is making and all the possibilities why he is making it.

So what about:

Kimi
Alonso
Felipe
Robert
Nick

How about old timers like

DC
Rubens
Giancarlo

How about young guns like

Sebastian and his brother Seebastian
Nico
Kaz
Adrian

What are they making in comparison to the top runners?

[racechick]

i dont consider myself a Hamilton acolyte but at that point in his career there were no guarantees he would even make it to F1 so if your funding is going to be cut from someone i think its only natural for any racer wishing to make a career in motorsport and in particular F1 to look elsewhere for funding

ask any young racer out there what is the most important thing aside from skill in making it in motorsport and it will be money!

The issue was nothing to do with funding. McLaren wanted Hamilton to stay in the Formula Three Euroseries for another season, but Hamilton (and his father) wanted him to move up a formula. As a result, the two serpents slipped off to Williams-BMW and tried to negotiate the same funding etc. that McLaren were providing Hamilton. Williams were supportive of the idea, but BMW weren't. The deal fell through because BMW didn't want to fund Hamilton. Had BMW have supported the idea, Hamilton would have been some no hoper, gallivanting round in the middle of the grid, and McLaren would have been left high and dry, having paid millions to develop a driver they don't have racing for them.

You are being unfair about this because you dislike lewis and his father. Lewis has to look to his own future and get the best deal he can. As someone pointed out earlier Senna would have done exactly the same thing. Button did it. All the drivers have to consider their career and make the decision best for them at the time. Lewis was not some rich kid with a father able to cough up the readies, he had to fight in a cut throat business to get what he got. He may not have liked all the decisions that had to be made but if you wan to succeed you have to be prepared to make tough decisions. Bare in mind lewis was a child of 18 at the time he did these negotiations that so offend you.
I doubt lewis would ever have been a no hoper.

[f1ea]

There's a difference between "sponsor" and "contract" racing... until Lewis was 18 (i assume) he couldn't have been under a legal contract, so Mclaren was basically a sponsor. While you don't have the legal bind to a sponsor, I'm sure there are moral ties there...

Once he turned 18 he decided to have a go and see what he could get out in the market... in a 'while I need you i'll play with you, but once I get the chance i'll backstab you' attitude... but bussiness is bussiness. Just don't expect to get any favours from your team / teammates anymore boy

[McLaren Fan]

You are being unfair about this because you dislike lewis and his father. Lewis has to look to his own future and get the best deal he can. As someone pointed out earlier Senna would have done exactly the same thing. Button did it. All the drivers have to consider their career and make the decision best for them at the time. Lewis was not some rich kid with a father able to cough up the readies, he had to fight in a cut throat business to get what he got. He may not have liked all the decisions that had to be made but if you wan to succeed you have to be prepared to make tough decisions. Bare in mind lewis was a child of 18 at the time he did these negotiations that so offend you.
I doubt lewis would ever have been a no hoper.

You clearly didn't read my posts on Hamilton or this and other threads.

[stonemonkey]

Just my take on this very off topic topic. To be a driver in F1 you have to be ruthless by nature as anyone at the top of any sport has to be as well as being very talented at what they do and I'd say that of all F1 drivers even though they have different psycological makeups. The fact that Hamilton's gone straight in at the front end in a top team has put him very much in the media spotlight at a young age and he doesn't have the experience to deal with that. I feel that in his interviews and press conferences he is trying to hide particular parts of his personality but it's the parts that make him what he is on the track.
Another factor is that he is trying to make money from himself as are Mclaren which puts him into the media spotlight even more and with so much exposure it's not surprising that a lot of people see something in him that they don't like.

[racechick]

Just my take on this very off topic topic. To be a driver in F1 you have to be ruthless by nature as anyone at the top of any sport has to be as well as being very talented at what they do and I'd say that of all F1 drivers even though they have different psycological makeups. The fact that Hamilton's gone straight in at the front end in a top team has put him very much in the media spotlight at a young age and he doesn't have the experience to deal with that. I feel that in his interviews and press conferences he is trying to hide particular parts of his personality but it's the parts that make him what he is on the track.
Another factor is that he is trying to make money from himself as are Mclaren which puts him into the media spotlight even more and with so much exposure it's not surprising that a lot of people see something in him that they don't like.

I think thats a pretty fair take on the situation.

Mclaren Fan I do read your posts, it was your post and your view of things i was answering.

[Big Azza]

WOW - What can I say?

I am amazed that the conversation turned very quickly into another rowl about Hamilton. If someone started a "Let's pick on Hamilton" thread there would be at least 2, 000 pages.

I don't think Hamilton is too self-centred. In his victory lap at Monaco, he started thanking the team for wining the race and was apologetic about hitting the wall.

I do, however, believe that Hamilton has a massive ego, and that was the tone that I got from reading a couple of pages of his auto-biography. I am still going to buy it. It will be interesting to understand his views about the Monaco Grand Prix 2007, the Turkish Grand Prix, where he lost a tyre, as well as the Mclaren spying scandal.

I don't understand how people in the entertainment industry earn so much. There is no purpose in driving around in circles. You are only of benefit to yourself. If we didn't have an entertainment industry, there would be no crisis, and the world would not stop spinning. If we lost a couple of brain surgeons in one city like Sydney, we would be in a crisis, and I don't think that they earn as much as Formula One drivers, and I find this disgusting.

Hats off to Ron Dennis, who saw a talent at such a young age and supported him in making Hamilton great. But I don't think he did many more fatherly things to Hamilton, he was purely in it for the money that he would be getting when McLaren win 10 consecutive world championships.

When I buy Hamilton's auto-biography next week, I want to see some examples of a personal relationship with Mr. Dennis. Why I disliked was that his so-called hero "Ayrton Senna" was only mentioned in passing throughout the book. He would address Ayrton Senna as "one of my heros." I was under the impression that Senna was his main hero. I wanted to find out more about how he felt after "one of his hero's" died. So now I have come to understand that he was probably using Ayrton Senna as marketing tool. That is a very major accusation to make, considering that I am such a big Hamilton fan.

Hamilton is not in Formula one for any personal reasons, I am shocked to find out. There is no passion, in my opinion. The passion was lost on that day in Albert Park 2007. If only he didn't finish on the podium! I think that he would still be passionate of Formula One if he did sign with Williams. He would have entered that race with stars in his eyes, hoping. As soon as he finished qualifying, he knew what he was capable of, and there was no reason to hope any more. He will win a race. And he did. And when he won that race, he knew that he would win the championship. But he stuffed up - a reality check.

[EwanM]

I'm not Lewis's biggest fan. I respect the things he does in a race car (except that vodafone advert, that's just corny) but when he's out of the car I find his attitude different to the other current F1 drivers. I'm not gonna go on, because everything I could say about Lewis has been said by others in this topic, but I just don't like this attitude like he's some sort of RnB star going on about bling all the time and speaking with this arrogance personna around him