FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[What's Burning?]

...It is very introspective and I'd even go as far as saying altruistic thing you've expressed. Other members on this forum would rather cut off a thumb than be as honest about themselves as you've just done, so I wanted to extend a heartfelt thank you for that.

You mean, you can accept that not everyone is a Hamilton/Mercedes fan?
That you can accept that some of us just don't care if he wins/they win?
You can accept that some of us prefer to support a different driver/team?

Was there something unclear about what I said?

You make comments that you're unwilling to or unable to substantiate. You hold a special place in my heart Sagi. I know there are lots and lots of people that dislike Hamilton for various reasons and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Some people dislike it when he loses and some people have a preference for other teams and drivers. I am perfectly fine with all of those things. It's the hypocrisy, the vitriol and the willingness to cling to a fallacy in the face of concrete facts and demand that your version of events is given the same access to be taught in schools.

I've thoroughly enjoyed Ferrari's implosion this year. I've thoroughly enjoyed each and every single sky is not falling claim from you and Spanky, only to be proven wrong time and time again, yet continue with the same irrational blind support. You keep clinging on you hear! Like a barnacle in the hull of F1.

Granted I've had lots of things great and small to cheer on and about, but it's the degree to which the "mighty" have fallen and the degree of insanity that it must be for you to bring such despair on the team once they had your support. Such a degree that you're now reduced to posting only innuendos you're unwilling to expound on or making vapid posts only because there's an irrational need to say something when saying nothing would be more dignified, but then again you've said au revoir to dignity, long long ago.

Best year ever.

[What's Burning?]

Just that not everyone feels the need to defend, explain, justify, and rationalize.

Is that why you can't resist the urge to respond on every single post with indefensible, unexplained, unjustified and irrational comments?
tee-hee.

[Hammer278]

Mercedes seems to be extending a couple of invites into the circus, probably sensing a couple of losers might be heading out?


Mercedes wants BMW, Audi in F1

Mercedes would like to go head-to-head in F1 with Germany's other two premium carmaker brands.

That is the claim of Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche, after Mercedes-Benz in 2014 finally succeeded in winning the drivers' and constructors' championships with a dominant display.

Zetsche told Germany's Sport Bild: "We share - and I'm talking about the premium business - about 80 per cent of the world market share with Audi and BMW.

"Of course," he added, "we greatly admire Red Bull and Ferrari and the other teams, nevertheless other manufacturer teams would be very much welcomed by us."

Mercedes bought and renamed the title-winning Brawn GP team - formerly Honda - after 2009 and initially targeted success with the F1 legend Michael Schumacher.

Zetsche admitted: "We never imagined that success would be so difficult and take so long to achieve."

But he said that Mercedes is now fully committed to F1.

No Le Mans

"If we do something, we do it properly," said Zetsche. "Therefore, we have at no time asked the fundamental question, and nor do we have plans to change anything on that commitment now."

He admitted that the new electric open wheeler series Formula E is "worth considering" from Mercedes' point of view, but he ruled out Le Mans.

"A whole year working for 24 hours, we do not consider to be a good cost-benefit radio," said Zetsche.

No crisis

He also played down all the current talk about F1 being in crisis.

"It is absurd to say Formula One is dead," said the 61-year-old. "I cannot think of a more exciting season.

"All the criticism was led largely by those who were not successful," Zetsche added.

And he also blamed people like Bernie Ecclestone for talking F1 down in 2014.

"Most definitely we have not sufficiently exploited the potential of Formula One, because the official channels of communication have not been used in a professional way," said Zetsche.

"We are more committed than ever in contributing to professionalise the sport in this regard.

"Better engaging younger fans is a central question," he added.

______________________________________________________



Your move BMW and Audi.

[What's Burning?]

OH! He gonna run up yo' house put it in yo' mouth.

[myownalias]

I just don't trust what the head people at manufacturers say; I would rather have privateer teams buying engines from manufacturers. The manufacturers will only stick around while things are working for them, if their business model changes and F1 doesn't suit their needs, they will be off like BMW, Honda and Toyota five or six years ago. Would Mercedes still be in F1 if the engine formula didn't change? they supposedly threatened to leave F1 if the engine formula did not change to a turbo hybrid formula. That's no different to Ferrari threatening to leave if their conditions are not met. I simply distrust any car maker in motorsport.

[CookinFlat6]

Interesting stuff indeed.

"Of course," he added, "we greatly admire Red Bull and Ferrari and the other teams, nevertheless other manufacturer teams would be very much welcomed by us."

They need to beat proper competitors to derive additional benefits from their F1 participation, drinks makers and merchandise sellers are all very well but carry no real kudos

He admitted that the new electric open wheeler series Formula E is "worth considering" from Mercedes' point of view, but he ruled out Le Mans.

Interesting comments about FE. I remeber when I said FE would be a competition of serious interest to the important F1 teams, the most knowlegeable of Ferrari genius normally found hiding in the Triangle lounge thought it was 'misguided' and 'funny' - at about the same time he was claiming Ferrari would go into LeMans where the limits were been pushed on high tech internal COMBUSTION engines and so Ferrari could go and dominate by using algae as fuel

[CookinFlat6]

I just don't trust what the head people at manufacturers say; I would rather have privateer teams buying engines from manufacturers. The manufacturers will only stick around while things are working for them, if their business model changes and F1 doesn't suit their needs, they will be off like BMW, Honda and Toyota five or six years ago. Would Mercedes still be in F1 if the engine formula didn't change? they supposedly threatened to leave F1 if the engine formula did not change to a turbo hybrid formula. That's no different to Ferrari threatening to leave if their conditions are not met. I simply distrust any car maker in motorsport.

But how is this different from the 40 or so privateers who have come and gone in the recent past? Marussia Caterham and HRT for example, surely you would have rather seen Toyota, BMW and Audi turn up to compete for those few years before leaving? Or am I missing your point

btw, we have discussed this 'supposedly threatened to leave' by Merc and as no one had any concrete proof unlike for the threats by ferrari and Renault, then no one really pushes that angle except sagi

[myownalias]

I just don't trust what the head people at manufacturers say; I would rather have privateer teams buying engines from manufacturers. The manufacturers will only stick around while things are working for them, if their business model changes and F1 doesn't suit their needs, they will be off like BMW, Honda and Toyota five or six years ago. Would Mercedes still be in F1 if the engine formula didn't change? they supposedly threatened to leave F1 if the engine formula did not change to a turbo hybrid formula. That's no different to Ferrari threatening to leave if their conditions are not met. I simply distrust any car maker in motorsport.

But how is this different from the 40 or so privateers who have come and gone in the recent past? Marussia Caterham and HRT for example, surely you would have rather seen Toyota, BMW and Audi turn up to compete for those few years before leaving? Or am I missing your point

Marussia, Caterham and HRT were driven out of the sport by costs being too much for them to handle, a big difference from manufacturers walking because they are not selling enough cars as a result of participating in F1. My point is over the years I have heard team principles and CEO's of car makers say how they are committed to F1 for the long term, only to up sticks and abandon F1 seemingly at the drop of a hat.

btw, we have discussed this 'supposedly threatened to leave' by Merc and as no one had any concrete proof unlike for the threats by ferrari and Renault, then no one really pushes that angle except sagi

Which is why I said "suposedly", just floating the idea...

[Ferrari man 009]

I just don't trust what the head people at manufacturers say; I would rather have privateer teams buying engines from manufacturers. The manufacturers will only stick around while things are working for them, if their business model changes and F1 doesn't suit their needs, they will be off like BMW, Honda and Toyota five or six years ago. Would Mercedes still be in F1 if the engine formula didn't change? they supposedly threatened to leave F1 if the engine formula did not change to a turbo hybrid formula. That's no different to Ferrari threatening to leave if their conditions are not met. I simply distrust any car maker in motorsport.

I think Ferrari is the exception to the rule, they have always been in F1 however good or bad they have been. The only road car manufacturer that has stayed in F1 since it first entered is, I believe McLaren.

[What's Burning?]

I just don't trust what the head people at manufacturers say; I would rather have privateer teams buying engines from manufacturers. The manufacturers will only stick around while things are working for them, if their business model changes and F1 doesn't suit their needs, they will be off like BMW, Honda and Toyota five or six years ago. Would Mercedes still be in F1 if the engine formula didn't change? they supposedly threatened to leave F1 if the engine formula did not change to a turbo hybrid formula. That's no different to Ferrari threatening to leave if their conditions are not met. I simply distrust any car maker in motorsport.

But how is this different from the 40 or so privateers who have come and gone in the recent past? Marussia Caterham and HRT for example, surely you would have rather seen Toyota, BMW and Audi turn up to compete for those few years before leaving? Or am I missing your point

Marussia, Caterham and HRT were driven out of the sport by costs being too much for them to handle, a big difference from manufacturers walking because they are not selling enough cars as a result of participating in F1. My point is over the years I have heard team principles and CEO's of car makers say how they are committed to F1 for the long term, only to up sticks and abandon F1 seemingly at the drop of a hat.

btw, we have discussed this 'supposedly threatened to leave' by Merc and as no one had any concrete proof unlike for the threats by ferrari and Renault, then no one really pushes that angle except sagi

Which is why I said "suposedly", just floating the idea...

Only difference MOA is that Mercedes is the only one that's actually signed an agreement to stay through till 2020 and is the only one to actually have won a championship, they also have been supplying engines to other teams for quite some time so it's not an apples to apples comparison to what Toyota and BMW did.

[Jabberwocky]

Toyota supplied Williams with engines and a driver.

[What's Burning?]

Toyota supplied Williams with engines and a driver.

So did BMW, but I guess the important part of the statement is the winning a championship part. In the end is who/what you believe and time will prove if the move to hybrid power engergy recovery technology with a small displacement turbo attracts more engine Manufactures to the sport. Honda certainly wouldn't have come back, and I'm pretty sure the rumor mill is rumoring right with one of the VW marks entering the sport in 2017.

There's no way in hell that we'd have gotten more engine variety had the V8s remained.

[overboost]

I just don't trust what the head people at manufacturers say; I would rather have privateer teams buying engines from manufacturers. The manufacturers will only stick around while things are working for them, if their business model changes and F1 doesn't suit their needs, they will be off like BMW, Honda and Toyota five or six years ago. Would Mercedes still be in F1 if the engine formula didn't change? they supposedly threatened to leave F1 if the engine formula did not change to a turbo hybrid formula. That's no different to Ferrari threatening to leave if their conditions are not met. I simply distrust any car maker in motorsport.

But how is this different from the 40 or so privateers who have come and gone in the recent past? Marussia Caterham and HRT for example, surely you would have rather seen Toyota, BMW and Audi turn up to compete for those few years before leaving? Or am I missing your point

btw, we have discussed this 'supposedly threatened to leave' by Merc and as no one had any concrete proof unlike for the threats by ferrari and Renault, then no one really pushes that angle except sagi

The Mercedes 'threat to leave' was this statement by Lauda on Nov 10, if it wasn't already discussed.

Indeed, struggling small teams like Lotus, Sauber and Force India would be much happier with an old, V8-style engine bill.

"None of us wanted the new engines," said Lotus owner Gerard Lopez, speaking for the struggling trio. "They were forced upon us."

He indicated he would not be opposed to another engine type being introduced, particularly if it was much cheaper.

Niki Lauda, Mercedes' team chairman, warned that bringing back the V8s would have other drastic consequences.

"If V8 comes back," the F1 legend said, "Mercedes will be gone."

Regarding privateers vs Manufacturers - The plus side for the privateers is that they are racers in the game for racing, but they often have little money and fail. Meanwhile for the most part manuacfacturers are soulless corporate beings in it to sell a product (which may or may not be racing related) and they are totally controlled by PR/Marketing arms who can change policy on a whim, and I agree with moa in that they can't be trusted. They are however well financed.

[CookinFlat6]

The Mercedes 'threat to leave' was this statement by Lauda on Nov 10, if it wasn't already discussed.

Would Mercedes still be in F1 if the engine formula didn't change? they supposedly threatened to leave F1 if the engine formula did not change to a turbo hybrid formula. That's no different to Ferrari threatening to leave if their conditions are not met. I simply distrust any car maker in motorsport.

The grownups were talking about threatening to leave if the hybrid was not introduced 5 years ago. It was Renault that threatened to leave if the V8s were not replaced. then Ferrari forced an extra year and a change from Renaults demanded 4 litre to a 6 litre.
Merc, years after they admitted that they MOST PROBABLY would have left if the old V8s had not been replaced by a more modern and relevant formula - Hybrid

Your quote is a response recently by Lauda to the stupid suggestion that V8s would be brought back to replace the Hybrid. No one took that seriously except a few h8rz on the interwebz, even Horner back tracked on that to say he meant simpler hybrid turbo with standard Renault parts

Its truly telling that you would even quote Laudas response to what was a joke and not even understand in what context you were posting it

Yet another Mea Culpa from the expertz

[overboost]

:doh:

Would Mercedes still be in F1 if the engine formula didn't change? they supposedly threatened to leave F1 if the engine formula did not change to a turbo hybrid formula. That's no different to Ferrari threatening to leave if their conditions are not met. I simply distrust any car maker in motorsport.

The grownups were talking about threatening to leave if the hybrid was not introduced 5 years ago. It was Renault that threatened to leave if the V8s were not replaced. then Ferrari forced an extra year and a change from Renaults demanded 4 litre to a 6 litre.
Merc, years after they admitted that they MOST PROBABLY would have left if the old V8s had not been replaced by a more modern and relevant formula - Hybrid

Your quote is a response recently by Lauda to the stupid suggestion that V8s would be brought back to replace the Hybrid. No one took that seriously except a few h8rz on the interwebz, even Horner back tracked on that to say he meant simpler hybrid turbo with standard Renault parts

Its truly telling that you would even quote Laudas response to what was a joke and not even understand in what context you were posting it

Yet another Mea Culpa from the expertz

My mistake for the wrong context if so. Anyway now you have Lauda's and Lopez's differing view's on the return of the old V8's. Lopez certainly took the V8 comment seriously! Is he 'interwebz h8rz'?

And I think you are wrong re the 4 litre engines vs 6 litre engines mentioned in your post. Ferrari suggested a 6 cylinder vs the 4. Just a typo I am sure, personally though I think a 6 litre turbo sounds like a good idea!