FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[What's Burning?]

Yeah that's coming from the guy who thinks latex body suits are cool.

An before anyone goes on to call this off topic, latex is a great insulator against electricity.

[CookinFlat6]

Using productive farmland to grow crops for food instead of fuel is more energy efficient, Michigan State University scientists concluded, after analyzing 17 years' worth of data to help settle the food versus fuel debate.
"It's 36 percent more efficient to grow grain for food than for fuel," said Ilya Gelfand, an MSU postdoctoral researcher and lead author of the study. "The ideal is to grow corn for food, then leave half the leftover stalks and leaves on the field for soil conservation and produce cellulosic ethanol with the other half."
Other studies have looked at energy efficiencies for crops over shorter time periods, but this MSU study is the first to consider energy balances of an entire cropping system over many years. The results are published in the April 19 online issue of the journal Environmental Science & Technology.
"It comes down to what's the most efficient use of the land," said Phil Robertson, University Distinguished Professor of crop and soil sciences and one of the paper's authors. "Given finite land resources, will it be more efficient to use productive farmland for food or fuel? One compromise would be to use productive farmland for both -- to use the grain for food and the other parts of the plant for fuel where possible. Another would be to reserve productive farmland for food and to grow biofuel grasses -- cellulosic biomass -- on less productive land."

So that pooh poohs the zero food chain effect nonsense

The U.S. Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 calls for biofuels to comprise 22 percent of the nation's transportation fuels by 2022.

This doesnt really help the car makers right now when offering their customers cars that are cheap yet do far less damage to the environment, so electric it is

And on to algae and waste decomposition

Dr Ralebitso-Senior believes that, although anaerobic digestion is an established process already being used by some waste-to-energy companies, its full potential has not yet been realised in solving many of the problems associated with growing biofuel crops.
"We can produce most biofuels using crops -- but the big issue is whether the land could be used for food instead. The loss of agricultural crops is a major concern.
"We call this the food-fuel conflict as the economic returns of growing crops for fuel are often higher and with more farmers choosing this option, foodstuffs inevitably become more expensive."
She says, "Using anaerobic digestion is an alternative method which has considerable potential, but we still do not understand a lot about how it works. That is what we are investigating in the laboratory, seeking ways in which we can optimise and, therefore, exploit the process effectively.

Yeah that sounds like it is gonna rock up and replace oil in time for Xmas, also confirms wht Honda with the biggest R&D budget in the world are not building algae powered Leaf cars

[sagi58]

...I understand, no one likes to be publicly made a fool of, but it would be easier to avoid all that if you don't say foolish things in the first place. While then attacking anyone willing to question the foolishness.

Rinse, lather, repeat. Oh and don't forget to report this post as further proof of harassment of your beliefs. I do apologize for the "wordy words" but in all fairness they're mostly your words.

Taking comments out of context isn't best way to throw my words back into my face.
I didn't attack anyone, nor did I use derogatory or derisive names in order to state my opinion.
And, I will continue to report those posts that I find offensive and I have no problem doing so.

[darwin dali]

Can EVERYbody just chill out here?
And keep at least a semblance of decorum up?

[sagi58]

I should get back to work, anyway!!
Anyone have a creative idea for a Jack O'Lantern?

Just, please don't tell me they can be used to power vehicles!!

[darwin dali]

:blush:

I should get back to work, anyway!!
Anyone have a creative idea for a Jack O'Lantern?

Just, please don't tell me they can be used to power vehicles!!

[CookinFlat6]

:blush:

I should get back to work, anyway!!
Anyone have a creative idea for a Jack O'Lantern?

Just, please don't tell me they can be used to power vehicles!!

well theoretically, any pumpkin, turnip or other vegetable can be used to power vehicles but we would have to turn over the whole of the Earths land mass to producing them if we let you drive across town one time. Reminds me of when I was at uni and I invested in carburetor free flow air filters to make my old flatsix faster and had to go hungry for over a week

[sagi58]

...Reminds me of when I was at uni and I invested in carburetor free flow air filters to make my old flatsix faster and had to go hungry for over a week

Is that where your nickname comes from?
You weren't "cookin' " because of your "flatsix"?

[spankyham]

As I said at the outset, IMO the future holds a mix of energy solutions. Electric, bio-fuels etc.

A simple fact, nearly all diesel engines can run on at least a blended fuel (some part being bio generated).

Corn is a relatively inefficient base for bio-fuels, it is however convenient. Switchgrass or algae are better solutions. These do not compete with food and use land generally not considered for food production. Algae does use normally non-arable land with saline ground water. It also cleans water. Valuable effects for our environment. It could be grown is sufficient quantities without impacting food production - in fact, it could contribute to greater food production through net beneficial effects on water.

If anyone wants to believe that bio-fuels are not going to be part of the future landscape that's their prerogative. I'm convinced they will be at least part of the solution moving forward and we will simply see more and more bio-fuel pumps at service stations and more and more cars supporting this.

[CookinFlat6]

The point is not what is possible or probable, the point is what can be done today, tomorrow to cut ICE emissions, dependence on oil and reduce the extraction of oil in increasingly environmentally crucial areas. Biofuels take up too much farmland and algae are no where near a mass solution or implementation that could replace oil and power road cars

And as far as net gain for dealing with the above after factoring in the costs required, and the political and social upheaval of moving away from oil - then there is no alternative for mass produced cars to realistically replace the ICE ones. The manufacturers are going along the path of east resistance as defined by the public, and so we have the hybrid - electrical and I believe very soon nuclear charging alternatives.

Therefore its dumb and irresponsible to say Hybrids are a scam and an untested and fully unproven on a global scale alternative like digestive algae are feasible right now. And to even suggest that other grown bio fuels are a possibility with current agricultural technology is north of cloud cuckoo land. So the F1 car makers did not introduce the hybrid regs as part of a scam to introduce hybrids in their business model 'which have nothing to do with saving the environment' . And it wasnt a conspiracy against ferrari who also produce road hybrids and agreed to the regs.

I hope you are now able to admit that you made a mistake and got your facts wrong

[spankyham]

My points are accurate and factual.
I don't see the discussions as contests to be won. Put another way, have you learned anything from our exchange?

[Hammer278]

My points are accurate and factual.
I don't see the discussions as contests to be won. Put another way, have you learned anything from our exchange?

I think he could've learned more by reading a couple of pages from the Twilight series.

But maybe you might have been able to pick up a few realistic things from his contribution. Because honestly speaking, a lot of what you said is either not realistic/plain ignorant. I actually believed there could be something in the algae/switchgrass idea (since I never heard of these resources being used extensively) and googled it and came up with almost squat.

[spankyham]

Oh look, mini-me has arrived.

Improve your Google and/or reading skills and you'll get a lot out of it.

[CookinFlat6]

My points are accurate and factual.
I don't see the discussions as contests to be won. Put another way, have you learned anything from our exchange?

I have learned that it would be consistently profitable to go short any investment you ever mention

Oh look, mini-me has arrived.

Improve your Google and/or reading skills and you'll get a lot out of it.

Thats rich coming from someone whos proof that algae is ready to replace oil is a 5 year ago quote from a guy since then sacked for non performing algae

priceless stuff, its the gift that keeps handing its arse out

[Hammer278]

Oh look, mini-me has arrived.

Improve your Google and/or reading skills and you'll get a lot out of it.

Actually before brushing up on how the world works, work on your basic forum manners. You embarrass this site. I simply said what's going on with your 'debate' and I did take the trouble to learn if there was any substance in what you said....but there was none. Its not my frigging fault there's nothing, I suffered a moment of stupidity by taking a ***fus seriously.