FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[1Lemon]

Unfortunately some day we'll run out of fossil fuels and cars will be powered with hydrogen or electricity, and then we'll reminence about the wonderful sound of the V6 Turbo era.

F1 is truly the only sport where the head honchos are all trying to rally in new fans and ridicule the sport at the same time.

[spankyham]

Unfortunately some day we'll run out of fossil fuels .....

I think I have pointed out the incredible irony in that statement previously. In moving to hybrid we are transferring from a plentiful and renewable fuel source (food for the ICE) to one of the rarest and most finite commodities on earth which is essentially only found in one location on the planet where people are forced to dig up those rare earths in slave labor conditions for 2 peanuts a day to make the shiny hybrids that salve the conscience of the sheep-public.

The move to this new F1-hybrid has nothing to do with being green or saving the planet or even about the renewable food for ICE's - its all about suiting some of the production car industry and making F1 suit their business model.

My 2 cents worth

[1Lemon]

Am I missing something here? What incredibly rare material?

[spankyham]

Am I missing something here? What incredibly rare material?

Generally called "rare earths" they are what the batteries in the hybrid cars are made from. 97% of the worlds production of these rare earths come from China. The conditions and pay of the people who dig the stuff up is shocking.

Rare earths are finite and in the control of 1 government.

Fuel for ICE's is a renewable resource which can be created anywhere by recycling refuse.

[Jabberwocky]

I had no idea that Neodymium was so rare.

[What's Burning?]

Unfortunately some day we'll run out of fossil fuels .....

I think I have pointed out the incredible irony in that statement previously. In moving to hybrid we are transferring from a plentiful and renewable fuel source (food for the ICE) to one of the rarest and most finite commodities on earth which is essentially only found in one location on the planet where people are forced to dig up those rare earths in slave labor conditions for 2 peanuts a day to make the shiny hybrids that salve the conscience of the sheep-public.

The move to this new F1-hybrid has nothing to do with being green or saving the planet or even about the renewable food for ICE's - its all about suiting some of the production car industry and making F1 suit their business model.

My 2 cents worth

You're "playing" with my post. I said electric or hydrogen, I didn't mention hybrids. The damage to the environment caused by manufacturing batteries is orders of magnitude smaller than the impact of burning fossil fuels.

[Jabberwocky]

What do the rules say about putting solar panels on the skin of an F1 car

Sent using NCC-1701

[What's Burning?]

What do the rules say about putting solar panels on the skin of an F1 car

They're too heavy. But I've read about photovoltaic paints and films that can be applied on multitudes of surfaces like glass windows. Stay tuned.

[Jabberwocky]

I remember reading a while ago about infrared panels that where as thick and as heavy as thin tin plate

Sent using NCC-1701

[sagi58]

Why don't we go "back" to the good old days when everything was environmentally friendly?

[CookinFlat6]

Am I missing something here? What incredibly rare material?

Generally called "rare earths" they are what the batteries in the hybrid cars are made from. 97% of the worlds production of these rare earths come from China. The conditions and pay of the people who dig the stuff up is shocking.

Rare earths are finite and in the control of 1 government.

Fuel for ICE's is a renewable resource which can be created anywhere by recycling refuse.

This message is factually wrong. edited.

The fossil fuels lobby like the lobby of climate change deniers and like the pro tobacco lobby before them always make available loaded and simplified facts that get lapped up by some people
'Rare Earth' is the latest from the fossil fuels lobby that is lapped up by some people

There is an abundance of lithium in Bolivia for example, its not only found in China

Ofcourse the production of 'rare earth' elements will cause environmental problems in their mining and refining and many "green technologies," while promising, have hidden environmental and trade implications.

Thats not the point - the point is not that fossil fuels are running out or are less harmful to the environment to mine than 'rare earth'

THE POINT IS THAT CONTINUED USE OF FOSSIL FUELS AT PRESENT LEVELS PRODUCES EMISSIONS THAT HAVE TIPPED THE WORLDS ECOSYSTEM INTO A DESTRUCTIVE PHASE

it is not correct to say 'producing electric batteries harms the environment, so dont produce batteries even though once produced, their daily use for transport DOES NOT continue to harm the environment'

If it harms the planet '10 units of harm' to produce a battery, and then 1 unit for the lifetime of the car, how is that even slightly comparable to the existing ICE which harms the planet 1 unit to make the engine then 1000 units over the lifetime of the car?

People need to THINK before they post as jumping on a couple of isolated facts supplied by the fossil fuel lobby (the major oil companies)is like saying there is no link between smoking and cancer because Philip Morris said so

lets simplify it- petrol engines burn fossil fuels EVERY SINGLE TIME they are used - These produce emissions that are VERY VERY VERY harmful - full stop. Electric cars (batteries) etc are produced from rare elements that are harmful to the environment to mine blah blah blah
But an electric car PRODUCES 0.0000 harmful emissions over the 20 - 30 years its driven around

edited

[CookinFlat6]

@spankyham

You have been called out and challenged about your factually incorrect and misleading post where you claim the move to hybrid technologies is not guided by a need to protect the planet from the emissions of fossil fuels but by a plan to change auto production geography.
You also claim that the mining of rare earth elements for hybrid tech is more destructive than cummulative emissions produced from the lifetime of an ICE

We are all waiting for your explanation or for your apology for posting misleading and factually wrong content

Please don't avoid following up on your post in open forum by sending pms

You made a post stating things as facts, please respond to members who have called you out on this as pms are private

[1Lemon]

You're both wrong. Hydrogen is the way forward. It's in abundance, it's safe and the only emission is water. Meaning Bernie gets his sprinkler ways. Imagine a V12 hydrogen engine!

[CookinFlat6]

I am not wrong, and I do not cut and paste stuff I don't understand

Hydrogen might be the way forward, I don't disagree.

I only point out the wrong in a post that claims alternative fuels to those used by ICE, are worse for the environment than continuing to burn fossil fuels. Claiming that the rare earth elements needed are only found in China is just mindboggling. Even smart phones and laptop pcs are produced with rare earth elements

To claim that using rare earth elements to produce batteries etc is worse than the emissions produce by ff is not very bright

All we ask is that those propagating these myths have the balls to explain themselves when called out

[Jabberwocky]

How long does a PU last in an F1 car?

Sent using NCC-1701