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[CookinFlat6]

Given the logic espoused on this thread, I think we will all agree that Jenson Button is a better driver, than either Lewis or Fernando. After all, he has the only WDC since 2008 (other than Vettel of course), the only driver to beat Vettel over the course of a season since Seb joined RB, the only driver ever to beat Hamilton as a team-mate (and he didn't need some bogus FIA tie-breaker to do it), and he out-scored Hammy by 15 points over their 3 years together. To tell you the truth I am surprised, but you can't argue with the facts.

Given the logic espoused on this thread, according to the FIAs book, Lewis is a better driver than Button. He beat his TEAMMATE in the FIA standings 2 out of 3 years. Prizes are given out only to winners each year. FIA accounting is therefore on an ANNUAL basis. The total points over 3 years are irrelevant and not even listed by the FIA as a metric.
Button won the WDC most recently, again that is irrelevant as far as the FIA are concerned, the record will show that both have a WDC.

However as far as the FIA books go, the record will show that Lewis has more wins, podiums and poles in his much shorter career than Button.

The record will also show that the rookie Lewis beat Alonso 1/1 as TEAMMATES

Nope you cannot argue with the real facts, although some create their own metrics, I think its safe to say that those collated by the FIA are the international standard

Of course the facts are that Alonso has 2 WDC's, so that makes him twice as successful than either. The FIA does count WDC's doesn't it?

Alonso has 2 WDCs however he has had a much longer career. It would be foolish to categorically say Alonso is twice as good as Lewis because he has twice the WDCs when the careers are not yet over. F1 history tells us that many drivers win WDCs later in their careers. All we can really say is that so far Alonso has won twice as many WDCs.

The only true measure of comparing 2 drivers is results in the same car in the same season

and the FIA record tells us the rookie Lewis beat Alonso - that is the only metric that works as so much depends on the car, team and the field at the time of comparison.

[CookinFlat6]

You have to admire Alonso, he turned up in F1 and battled his way to a top team to win his championships. Where as other drivers are born with the proverbial silver spoon and turn up in a top team.

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Well Lewis didnt turn up at the top team, McLaren did not win the WCC whilst he was there. Infact Lewis joined a team that was at the back of the top teir on its way to the mid grid. They finished 5th last year.

So like Alonso and others Lewis started off in a lesser team and has earned his way to a top drive at Merc. Its not his fault his standards are so much higher than everyone else whose lesser team is Minardi. Cream rises

[Jabberwocky]

You have to admire Alonso, he turned up in F1 and battled his way to a top team to win his championships. Where as other drivers are born with the proverbial silver spoon and turn up in a top team.

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Well Lewis didnt turn up at the top team, McLaren did not win the WCC whilst he was there. Infact Lewis joined a team that was at the back of the top teir on its way to the mid grid. They finished 5th last year.

So like Alonso and others Lewis started off in a lesser team and has earned his way to a top drive at Merc. Its not his fault his standards are so much higher than everyone else whose lesser team is Minardi. Cream rises

No one mentioned Lewis mate. I know it is hard to believe that someone made a post in the Alonso thread that was not on about Lewis so keep your knickers on. Maybe your being too hypersensitive on things.

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[Jabberwocky]

Given the logic espoused on this thread, I think we will all agree that Jenson Button is a better driver, than either Lewis or Fernando. After all, he has the only WDC since 2008 (other than Vettel of course), the only driver to beat Vettel over the course of a season since Seb joined RB, the only driver ever to beat Hamilton as a team-mate (and he didn't need some bogus FIA tie-breaker to do it), and he out-scored Hammy by 15 points over their 3 years together. To tell you the truth I am surprised, but you can't argue with the facts.

Given the logic espoused on this thread, according to the FIAs book, Lewis is a better driver than Button. He beat his TEAMMATE in the FIA standings 2 out of 3 years. Prizes are given out only to winners each year. FIA accounting is therefore on an ANNUAL basis. The total points over 3 years are irrelevant and not even listed by the FIA as a metric.
Button won the WDC most recently, again that is irrelevant as far as the FIA are concerned, the record will show that both have a WDC.

However as far as the FIA books go, the record will show that Lewis has more wins, podiums and poles in his much shorter career than Button.

The record will also show that the rookie Lewis beat Alonso 1/1 as TEAMMATES

Nope you cannot argue with the real facts, although some create their own metrics, I think its safe to say that those collated by the FIA are the international standard

Of course the facts are that Alonso has 2 WDC's, so that makes him twice as successful than either. The FIA does count WDC's doesn't it?

Alonso has 2 WDCs however he has had a much longer career. It would be foolish to categorically say Alonso is twice as good as Lewis because he has twice the WDCs when the careers are not yet over. F1 history tells us that many drivers win WDCs later in their careers. All we can really say is that so far Alonso has won twice as many WDCs.

The only true measure of comparing 2 drivers is results in the same car in the same season

and the FIA record tells us the rookie Lewis beat Alonso - that is the only metric that works as so much depends on the car, team and the field at the time of comparison.

So by your reasoning Vettel has had a shorter career in F1 and won more championships the Vettel is the best driver in F1.

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[What's Burning?]

And by your reasoning Vettel was born with an F1 silver spoon.

[sagi58]

... I think its safe to say that those collated by the FIA are the international standard

Bravo!! And, to follow from that, it's safe to say that if the FIA dole out a HUGE fine, it's merited!!

[sagi58]

And by your reasoning Vettel was born with an F1 silver spoon.

Remind me: Did Red Bull "nurse" him from a tender age?
Did he jump right into a Red Bull? Just asking...

[operaman]

And by your reasoning Vettel was born with an F1 silver spoon.

Remind me: Did Red Bull "nurse" him from a tender age?
Did he jump right into a Red Bull? Just asking...

Actually Vettel signed on with Red Bull at a younger age (by a few months I think), than Lewis did with McLaren. The difference I see is that Red Bull really took their time with him, while McLaren thrust Lewis into prime time perhaps a bit too soon. Seb had time as a test driver (when it actually mattered) and stints at BMW and Toro Rosso, before moving to the A Team at just the right moment.

[sagi58]

Actually Vettel signed on with Red Bull at a younger age (by a few months I think), than Lewis did with McLaren. The difference I see is that Red Bull really took their time with him...

So, the proof is in the pudding, eh?

[racechick]

Didn't McLaren 'hold' Lewis and almost not run him in 2007? And wasn't Vettel younger when launched into the big time than Lewis was?

[CookinFlat6]

Alonso has 2 WDCs however he has had a much longer career. It would be foolish to categorically say Alonso is twice as good as Lewis because he has twice the WDCs when the careers are not yet over. F1 history tells us that many drivers win WDCs later in their careers. All we can really say is that so far Alonso has won twice as many WDCs.

The only true measure of comparing 2 drivers is results in the same car in the same season

and the FIA record tells us the rookie Lewis beat Alonso - that is the only metric that works as so much depends on the car, team and the field at the time of comparison.

So by your reasoning Vettel has had a shorter career in F1 and won more championships the Vettel is the best driver in F1.

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Nope, by my reasoning Vettel is better than Webber

His career is not over so we cant judge against others who also have several years left, but so far he looks good, but there is no proof he is better than Alonso or Lewis never having gone head to head in the same car

[1Lemon]

You have to admire Alonso, he turned up in F1 and battled his way to a top team to win his championships. Where as other drivers are born with the proverbial silver spoon and turn up in a top team.

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Well Lewis didnt turn up at the top team, McLaren did not win the WCC whilst he was there. Infact Lewis joined a team that was at the back of the top teir on its way to the mid grid. They finished 5th last year.

So like Alonso and others Lewis started off in a lesser team and has earned his way to a top drive at Merc. Its not his fault his standards are so much higher than everyone else whose lesser team is Minardi. Cream rises

No one mentioned Lewis mate. I know it is hard to believe that someone made a post in the Alonso thread that was not on about Lewis so keep your knickers on. Maybe your being too hypersensitive on things.

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I can't believed you even considered saying anything negative that even has the slightest hint of being linked to The Messiah Lord Hamilton™

[CookinFlat6]

No one mentioned Lewis mate. I know it is hard to believe that someone made a post in the Alonso thread that was not on about Lewis so keep your knickers on. Maybe your being too hypersensitive on things.

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The general context of the last few pages has been Alonso/Lewis and therefore I referred to Lewis who fits that description for many. Admittedly a little presumptuous on my part if you did not have Lewis in mind

I can't believed you even considered saying anything negative that even has the slightest hint of being linked to The Messiah Lord Hamilton™

thanks for your contribution

[1Lemon]

I can't believed you even considered saying anything negative that even has the slightest hint of being linked to The Messiah Lord Hamilton™

thanks for your contribution

You're welcome.

[operaman]

Didn't McLaren 'hold' Lewis and almost not run him in 2007? And wasn't Vettel younger when launched into the big time than Lewis was?

Yes, McLaren initially considered giving him another year to develop. I think the idea was to team Alonso with PDLR, both being Spaniards and all. You are sort of right about Vettel too I think. Not sure, but I think he had some time as a 3rd driver before 2007. I know he did do his initial F1 testing a few months before Lewis, but Lewis did get the big time ride with McLaren before Seb's drives with BMW and TR.