FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[andrew]

[NHcheese]

This has nothing to do with Mercedes. Unless the chicken and the egg are metaphors for two people?

[Hammer278]

Mercedes

Lewis Hamilton - 4th
"Of course, I'm disappointed by today's race and I would have loved to deliver the win this afternoon for all the British fans here at Silverstone. The race started so well for us today; I felt comfortable out in front and was managing my pace. The tyre problem was such a shame and from then, it was just a case of giving it my all and battling as far up the field as possible. I had some good overtaking moves and, given another lap, I might have got Fernando and ended up on the podium. Everything considered, fourth place is pretty good after having been last on lap 10 and we'll take that. It's a great result for the team today, big congratulations to Nico who came through a tricky situation to take the win for us. We've now moved up to second place in the Constructors' Championship which is a nice reward for everyone at the factories just down the road from here. "
Nico Rosberg - 1st
"This is a great moment for me and our team to win in the home of motor racing at Silverstone. We have such great momentum in our Silver Arrows team and I'm very proud to be part of it. This win is for every single person who has been involved in building our car. It was a shame for Lewis today, and I had also a problem with my tyre but I was lucky because of the Safety Car. It was so special to win today, especially in front of fellow team members and their families as our factory is only ten minutes away from the track. The race was really exciting. I had to manage the tyres really carefully, I was told to avoid the kerbs. At the end, it was difficult to hold Mark and to look after my tyres but I was able to keep the position, and take a great victory for us. Now we can look forward to another home race next weekend at the Nürburgring."

Ross Brawn, team principal
"It is a very special feeling to win here at Silverstone and especially at the end of such a dramatic afternoon. Nico didn't put a foot wrong today: he drove extremely well, looked after the tyres like he needed to and was in the perfect place to pick up the pieces when others ran into trouble. It got very tense in the final laps after the second Safety Car period, but Nico showed he had the speed to respond and the composure to bring the car home. It's his second victory in three races and really deserved. As for Lewis, he showed exactly what he's made of today. He was driving beautifully at the front of the field and slowing pulling away when he suffered the tyre failure. Then he went from dead last on lap nine to fourth at the finish - and he was lapping incredibly quickly with a damaged car in the final laps. I am sure he will take a lot of encouragement for the rest of the season from the basic pace we showed today. But the biggest praise of all must go to our team. We have worked night and day this year to improve this car, solve our tyre management issues and put ourselves in a position to take the fight to our rivals. Today, we took another big step in the right direction and perhaps we have turned a corner now. It's extra special to have done it here at Silverstone, in front of our colleagues, family and friends. Congratulations to the entire team. "

Toto Wolff, executive director
"What a great day for our team. The guys in Brackley and Brixworth have worked so hard in the past weeks and months to deliver this kind of performance, always with the total support and commitment of our board in Stuttgart. Today, we began to deliver on the potential we have shown this year. Both cars were right on the pace all the way through the race and, while we had misfortune with Lewis, we also enjoyed good fortune with the final Safety Car period, which allowed Nico to change a damaged tyre without penalty. Nico drove beautifully and Lewis was full of fight and determination to come from the back of the grid to the edge of the podium. Most of all, this is a win for everybody who has worked so hard at our factories to pull us into contention at the front of the field. In a normal race, on a demanding circuit, we were right there in qualifying and all through the race, which is probably the best news from today. So thank you to Stuttgart, to Brixworth and to Brackley. Now we need to keep pushing because we still have a lot more to achieve this season. "

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I think the targets have shifted for Mercedes after this race, their comments show they have some firepower for Sunday as well. Mercedes is 50 points behind Redbull in the WCC, Lewis and Nico are within 50 points of Vettel. Do we dare think of Championship possibilities for 2013?

[CookinFlat6]

I think the targets have shifted for Mercedes after this race, their comments show they have some firepower for Sunday as well. Mercedes is 50 points behind Redbull in the WCC, Lewis and Nico are within 50 points of Vettel. Do we dare think of Championship possibilities for 2013?

Alonso was not far off Vettels lead this time last year. If Mercs resources and planning have indeed turned the corner, then the fizzy drinks firm will have to be perfect for the rest of the season because Lewis, Nico, Ross, Bob, Aldo and the Merc car appear to all know how to play this game.

And if their car continues as it did today, i.e. if its race pace has become like its 1 lap pace, could be some life left to the competition this year

[racechick]

Did you read the Autosport report by Noble I posted in the Pirelli rubber thread? It's a sub only article so I copied it in there. It's a long article but really good and says.... make no mistake, Mercedes are gunning for the championship.maybe I should have posted it in here....but it's about tyres as well. Very positive article from Mercedes point of view!

[Hammer278]

At the moment I'm just waiting for their response to the ridiculous changes of the YDT test. They are set to lose a lot of ground to Redbull and Ferrari if things lie as they stand right now.

EDIT

RC, is this the article?


Mercedes now in the title fight, says Brawn

Ross Brawn says that Mercedes is in the hunt for the 2013 World Championship, despite Sebastian Vettel and others having enjoyed something of a head start as the silver cars struggled with tyres in the early races.

“I don’t see why not,” Brawn told this writer of his team’s title chances. “Red Bull last year had a great middle of the season. We’ve got two drivers on top form, the team is really gelling now, and why not? We’re certainly going to try.”

Brawn says that the Silverstone win came as a huge boost after the testing saga.

“Getting back to racing was just great, and getting back to racing with the result we had is obviously very special. It was partly frustrating because Lewis had a great weekend, just one event took it away from him, but that can happen. We’re greatly encouraged for the rest of the season.”

Ross acknowledged that we’ll never know what would have happened had Hamilton and Vettel enjoyed clean races.

“We were keeping in touch, Nico managed to keep in touch the whole time. Lewis had got the gap we’d asked him to get, and he was holding that. It would have been close. I think we were competitive.”

He also cautioned that it remains to be seen how Mercedes fares on the softer Pirelli compounds.

“I think we’ve got to look at the information. They were fairly conservative compounds, so how we’ll fare on some more delicate compounds is still to be proven. But there were some encouraging signs.”

Meanwhile Brawn said that Mercedes would accept any changes planned by Pirelli in the wake of Silverstone.

“I think the key thing is that we all put to one side any competitive considerations we’ve got. We’ve demonstrated that in these circumstances we can be competitive, and if the solution is to make some changes to the tyres, then we’ll accept it.

“I think the reversion to 2012 spec that Pirelli wanted to do earlier in the year that was blocked by some teams, I’m not saying that is the solution, but whatever the solution is F1 has got to come together and accept that we’ve got to do what’s right for the sport. We don’t want a repeat of Silverstone.”

________________________________________________

Quite a confident statement especially at the end where he says they will support 'any' changes by Pirelli. Maybe they really have sorted the chassis out and understand how to nurture whatever tyres are thrown at them. But I still hope they fight for a day at least in the "revised YDT".

[racechick]

No. This is it. I'll post here as well.


Super article here by Noble, it's an Autosport article( subs only) , on the tyre situation and the rise of Mercedes...........



"Formula 1 is not a sport that likes to spend too much time dwelling on the past. It's all about the next race, the next lap and the next bit of work that can help shave off a couple of tenths of a second.

So while those outside the sport continue to delve into where the blame lies for the Pirelli tyre crisis that F1 has found itself in, those at the centre of it are already focused somewhere else.

Their attention is not on what has happened up until this point, it's on where things go from here. And, more specifically, just who stands to benefit the most from a situation that has, at times, appeared to deliver only losers?

While teams like Force India, Lotus and Ferrari may feel uneasy about the impact of tyre changes on their competitive form – even if they now accept there are genuine safety reasons for doing it – down at Mercedes the feeling is likely to be completely opposite.

For if there is one team that, in the fight to close down Red Bull, stands to benefit the most from tyres that operate at a cooler temperature, it's the Brackley-based squad.

Mercedes's main problem this year has not been tyre wear as such, but about trying to keep its rear-tyre temperatures under control.

The W04 gets it tyres beautifully in to the right operating window – which is why Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg have been so able to exploit the speed of the car on Saturday afternoons.


Yet the way the car uses its tyres has not been so good in the races – for when that characteristic pops the rubber over the temperature threshold on Sundays there is very little the drivers can do, other than sit there and get frustrated.

The problem has been particularly difficult to solve because of a unique characteristic of this year's tyres: that once they overheat there is almost nothing that can be done to bring the temperatures back down.

This is a legacy of the much-talked-about steel belt being used inside the tyre. The metal's heat-retention properties means that once the tyres get hot, they stay hot: so if the Mercedes begins abusing its rubber, it's pretty much game over.

The switch to the Kevlar-belt from this weekend's German Grand Prix, with further revisions planned for Hungary, is only going to help cure that heat-retention issue.

For as well as bringing the temperatures of the tyres down by around 10C (potentially from out of the window to in it), the Kevlar internals will make it easier to manage temperature fluctuations – so if things get too hot, action can be taken to bring the tyres down a couple of degrees.

Competitive swings in F1 are also never done in isolation, for any potential gain Mercedes has in this area may also be exaggerated by potential losses that teams like Lotus and Ferrari may have in dropping out the bottom end of the temperature window – especially on single-lap form.

On paper, the stars appear to be lining up nicely.

But even without the potential benefit that may come from the switch of tyres, momentum has been building at Mercedes in other areas too over the past few weeks.

Since its tyre disasters in Bahrain and Spain made it clear just how much work the team needed to devote to this area, its form has lifted dramatically.

In the three races since Barcelona, Nico Rosberg is the highest-scoring driver with 60 points – ahead of Mark Webber on 45 and Sebastian Vettel on 43.

In constructors' championship terms, Mercedes has been the highest-scoring team over that period, too.

Hamilton and Rosberg have delivered 99 points, compared with Red Bull's 88 and Ferrari's 51.

Lotus, the team that everyone feared had the best tyre management after Kimi Raikkonen won in Australia, has managed just 15.

Of course, Mercedes' lift in form is not without its controversies – for rivals are convinced that there is a connection between its improved tyre management and that much talked-about 'private' Pirelli test after the Spanish GP.


While the chatter over that will likely only get louder as the championship battle gets more intense, how much Merc did or did not benefit is ultimately irrelevant – for its punishment has been handed down, and it's a simple fact that Mercedes appears to have licked its Sunday afternoon woes.

There may be a slight cost in missing the forthcoming young driver test, and the involvement in the International Tribunal process may have been a distraction, but ultimately the team's penalty was nowhere near as harmful to its title prospects as, say, a race ban or points deduction.

Mercedes has also got its hands on new executive director (technical) Paddy Lowe much earlier than anticipated after a deal was struck with McLaren to release him from his contract.

With Lowe not able to take the team principal role that he is ultimately joining Mercedes for, he's in more of a holding pattern for now – which has left him free to use his supreme technical knowledge to benefit the team's current on-track efforts.

Ross Brawn, who had initially suggested several weeks ago that Lowe was important for the team's long-term prospects, has now emphasised that his new man is focusing almost all his efforts on ramping up the 2013 car.

Make no bones of it: Mercedes has its sights set on the championship.

If it does it – or even just takes the fight with Red Bull and Ferrari all the way to the season finale – we may look back at the British Grand Prix weekend as the most significant moment of its campaign.

For the chaos that engulfed F1 has triggered what could ultimately lead to a performance lift for the team – at the very time that Rosberg and Hamilton proved the team has got its tyre-degradation matters sorted.

Lowe himself admitted before the race that how the team did at Silverstone was going to be critical going forward.

"It is a crucial race for us," he said. "There is still more to understand, I know that, but we are just going to keep chipping away at it. We are hopeful that what we find this weekend will be a turning point…"

There will also be a certain irony that the end result of a tyre crisis, whose roots can be traced back to Lewis Hamilton's spectacular tyre failure in final practice in Bahrain, could well end up helping the very team it hurt the most to start with…

F1 has a funny way of working sometimes."

[1Lemon]

Hammer can you explain why Merc lose out so much?

[CookinFlat6]

I don't think Merc lose out at all, I posted this on another thread

Ultimately I think Merc have come out of all this the winners.

Even if the others test without Merc all they will be gaining is a better understanding of the new tyres Merc already tested.

Merc had a particular problem to solve which they have, so its much better for Merc, who had a big problem, for all the teams to get a test as they had a lot more to gain.

The cars that were already good with the fragile tyres were already also good on the previous tyres. If Merc dont complain much it will be a very good indicator. And Ross has just said very confidently that Merc are serious contenders for the title this year

The kevlar lined tyres are said to have a lower operating temp and conducted away excess heat better than the steel lined ones. So the teams and drivers who cant warm up their tyres quick enough, Lotus etc could take a step backwards with Merc gaining even more than RBR

In Brawn confidimus (In Brawn we trust)

And now it appears Merc are not contesting the test although they could on safety grounds I.e. kit new tyres are introduced the rules are each team gets a batch to test

Interesting times, I think a lot of those laughing at Mercs 'loss' might be in line for some butthurt

[Hammer278]

Hammer can you explain why Merc lose out so much?

I don't know. To me it looks like Mercedes took the chance to get on a 1 time boat and they probably learned a good amount from that test by not really breaking any rules and riding on some luck (Whiting's permission).

This upcoming 3 day test is basically because of some continuous whining by rival team bosses who just can't take the fact that 1 team took the effort and were savvy enough to grab an opportunity which won't come up again this year. Basically, a reward for the slower brained teams to catch up on what Merc has done.

Let's face it, race drivers or test drivers....it's not going to affect Pirelli's analysis much, it's BULLSH!T. A difference of 2-3 tenths in pace is not going to cause a world of difference to their tyre construction.

[1Lemon]

Hammer can you explain why Merc lose out so much?

I don't know. To me it looks like Mercedes took the chance to get on a 1 time boat and they probably learned a good amount from that test by not really breaking any rules and riding on some luck (Whiting's permission).

This upcoming 3 day test is basically because of some continuous whining by rival team bosses who just can't take the fact that 1 team took the effort and were savvy enough to grab an opportunity which won't come up again this year. Basically, a reward for the slower brained teams to catch up on what Merc has done.

Let's face it, race drivers or test drivers....it's not going to affect Pirelli's analysis much, it's BULLSH!T. A difference of 2-3 tenths in pace is not going to cause a world of difference to their tyre construction.

I get that but I don't understand where Merc are loosing out? Doesn't this just even the playing field, if anything they have gained because they get what is effectively a 3 race advantage on this test. Regardless of who was smarter/more cunning than who.

[Hammer278]

They had a good taste of 2014 tyres, but this upcoming test is all dedicated to 2013. A big advantage for this year if you ask me.

[samreddevilz]

really good topics there. a superb share. keep this Up !

[racechick]

Here's an article talking about Brawn and Lowe's future. Also rumours that Honda want Brawn to run their programme. Brawn denies any knowledge of it.
Brawn also says if you didn't start on your 2014 programme a year ago, with all the changes it involves....you're in trouble!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23158125

[Hammer278]

Brawn staying put at Mercedes for 2014

Ross Brawn says he has no plans to step down as Mercedes team principal at the end of the year despite the arrival of his supposed replacement Paddy Lowe.

Lowe came to the team from McLaren this year and is on standby to take over the reins when Brawn decides to call time on his career. But with a new engine formula for 2014 and Mercedes recent improvement in form, Brawn says he is not going anywhere soon.

"We're in good shape for next year. I wouldn't want to miss the fun," Brawn was quoted by BBC Sport. "This is a big regulation change - and the full package of the car; not just aerodynamics like we've had before. If you didn't start on it a year ago, you're in trouble."

Lowe, who made his first race appearance with the team in Silverstone, is prepared to wait until Brawn stands aside.

"Ross is team principal at the moment," he said. "We don't know how long he will want to remain team principal. Those plans aren't made. I have come in to strengthen the team in its existing form, which I can do. "There is a great deal to be done and I have already started to augment what we've got. What the future brings in terms of progression from there remains to be seen - it isn't set or defined at the moment. If Ross at some point wants to step up to something higher or step back then we will have the strength to react and respond to that and maintain a strong leadership. In the meantime there's a lot to do and I'm very comfortable with that."

_____________________________________________

IBWT.