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[1Lemon]

Last year everything I read generally credited Mclaren with having the world class wind tunnel.

I heard the same, then Williams was the next respected one in F1, then Endstone etc. Ferrari had the worst last year

[CookinFlat6]

At least, outside the 'steak dinnered' British media objective fingers are been pointed

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/will-g ... 13875.html

In Button, they have a driver who is often praised for his ability to get the best out of a good car, but one that is also said to struggle to lead direction if things are not going so well.
He was all at sea in his lean years with Benetton and despite having more experience at Brawn in 2009 and subsequently at McLaren, he has been known to go wayward in set-up and struggle to pull the car back without turning to the other side of the garage to recover.
With Perez now in place as his team-mate instead of Lewis Hamilton, Button does not have such a strong shoulder to lean on, because despite clearly having plenty of raw pace and aggression, Perez lacks experience and is relatively unproven in terms of car development.

Something fundamental changed for a team with the resources of Mclaren. For a team with the best simulator, the best wind tunnel, experience and expertise and facilities, to suddenly be floundering and blaming wind tunnels and correlations is to avoid possible root causes

Red bull, Ferrari and Lotus build and focus around a driver able to find performance and direction from a car that needs development. McLaren had this in 2009. Yet since 2010 the team have become unfocused and the slide must have started then. In the quest for driver equality and making Jenson fast and comfortable they have forgotten that an ace star driver is more important than PR and image. They didnt relise that having a WDC doesnt guarantee a driver is a star, just lucky

They will only ever be as good as their lead driver and that is exactly where they are now, unless things start to revolve around Sergio pronto

[vaptin]

^McLaren have the best out of all of those factors, but splitting between two drivers is the only thing holding them back? I think you are over-weighting the resources disadvantage from one lead driver.

It is strange though, that McLaren are still struggling, this isn't really 2009 (remember them floundering there too, with Hamilton as clear number 1 cookin?) where they had a good car lurking all along and just needed to be found, and it seems more than teething problems like Ferrari had with the change of suspension design?

[CookinFlat6]

Yeah its truly baffling Vap

there just doesnt seem to be any 2009 like 'revealing' the good car under the bad. All Im saying is that the attempts to 'give Jenson a car he likes' (Whitmarshs own words many times) is a very very resource intensive pursuit. Its easier to have a guy like Seb or Lewis or Kimi who will drive any car fast. Lewis has doesnt like his brakes and comes a close second, JB doesnt like the car and is lapped silly. We can her it from Sergio, he said in Canada if it wasnt for the Massa red flag he could have made Q3, whereas JB said there was no chance of Q3 cos the car wasnt good enough(to HIS liking enough)

Remember he said the 27 was the worst car for him in 3 years at Mac. So it makes sense that McLaren who spent lots of time making the car good for JB did this at the expense of building around the faster Lewis and retaining focus. Example of losing focus? how the 27 became the 28. Not even Mclaren change things that aint broke, therefore there must have been a NEED that dictated a radical suspension change. That need is clearly JB as he potentially gets a new car that has more scope for less front and understeery, more than the old 28 with its high front and limited development capacity

When you look at the slo mos of the 28, the suspension is all over the place vertically, porpoising, bottoming, all sorts. Yet the car puts in good fastest laps. (Sergio has one , Merc dont)This for me looks like the car is fundamentally fast but has inconsistent aero and cannot be driven as fast as it is.

So they need to dial in this car to make it driveable, with very very quick feedback and direction from the driver (e.g 'ok guysthis way makes it faster round that corner but removes a bit of back end' etc) not 'I have no grip, I cant drive this unless the back is planted' etc etc

or even better 'its harder to drive with this way, but I can do it faster'

Comfort zone is not something the team need now, and each FP session should be spent all out on track not in the garage wasting time on one detail that makes JB feel safer

And now JB has given up on this year and cant wait to get out of the car, there is no Alonso from last year or Lewis from 2009 only Sergio. Should focus on only his feedback and direction from now as it cannot be worse than this travesty

(Edit re: 2009, they had clear factors involved like Kers and no DD at start, and once they got a handle on them THEN Lewis directed them and caught up with the rest thus creating the Macca legend of outdeveloping the others, this time round the car is fast just needs to be dialed in on track and not in the sim)

[Hammer278]

McLaren are stuck. Can they throw efforts behind a rising star when the old maid is still around, with a mouth that will flap the instant he senses that the team is shifting weight? No.

The hardest thing to do at the moment is unfortunately (for McLaren) also the best thing to do. Get rid of Button, and bring in a quick driver who's been around the block a bit. Something like a Sutil, or Di Resta, but the thing is options are so limited. Button can thank his lucky stars that the major players are on long term contracts/won't move from their current top teams...and the rest are newbies still trying to find their feet. I can't see McLaren improving soon, unless Whitmarsh gets ruthless and does what is necessary. But Whitmarsh and 'ruthless' don't mix well.

[racechick]

I think the sad thing for Mclaren is that a weak driver and a weak team principal came together at the same time. Neither one can take full blame because if it had only been one of them Mclaren might have got through it. Just a weak team principal but a fast driver might have remained strong. And a strong team leader wouldn't have sacrificed a fast driver for an unpredictable one. But a weak driver who talks above his weight and a gullible weak team leader is a very bad combination.
I just can't see any immediate way out of this mess for Mclaren at the moment, and it is sad. But had Lewis stayed I think they'd still be in a mess, still playing to the same tune. Don't know the answer.

[LRW]

Don't you lot ever get tired, moaning and bithching about McLaren and Button...?

[Hammer278]

Don't you lot ever get tired, moaning and bithching about McLaren and Button...?

Not really...just like how you don't get tired of b*tching and whining about other people's posts here. This is a McLaren thread, and Button is in the team and this is a forum...we are on topic, so if you don't like it you're welcome to piss off.

[NHcheese]

They are an experienced team in the same position Ferrari were last year, their team and especially Alonso took it by the chin and got on with it.

[LRW]

Don't you lot ever get tired, moaning and bithching about McLaren and Button...?

Not really...just like how you don't get tired of b*tching and whining about other people's posts here. This is a McLaren thread, and Button is in the team and this is a forum...we are on topic, so if you don't like it you're welcome to piss off.

Do you need a hand untwistung you knickers...?

[Hammer278]

Don't you lot ever get tired, moaning and bithching about McLaren and Button...?

Not really...just like how you don't get tired of b*tching and whining about other people's posts here. This is a McLaren thread, and Button is in the team and this is a forum...we are on topic, so if you don't like it you're welcome to piss off.

Do you need a hand untwistung you knickers...?

No, I'm not the one who's constantly troubled by people posting on this board and constantly feel the need to whine about said posts. Looks to me like your knickers are beyond help.

[LRW]

Don't you lot ever get tired, moaning and bithching about McLaren and Button...?

Not really...just like how you don't get tired of b*tching and whining about other people's posts here. This is a McLaren thread, and Button is in the team and this is a forum...we are on topic, so if you don't like it you're welcome to piss off.

Do you need a hand untwistung you knickers...?

No, I'm not the one who's constantly troubled my people posting on this board and constantly feel the need to whine about said posts. Looks to me like your knickers are beyond help.

No I'm fine. I was nearly asking a straight forward question in a non agressivr way. You however....

Maybe I hit a nerve....?

[Hammer278]

When you repeat the same pointless question 10 times a month, I thought it'd do well to be a bit more straightforward than usual to drive it home through your skull.

[racechick]

Oi you lot! Be nice to each other!! Only people your allowed to bitch about in here Ar Button and Mclaren...oh and Whitmarsh....and I guess Perez, bu he's sweet you wouldn't want to bitch about him

[LewEngBridewell]

:director: Oi you lot! Be nice to each other!! Only people your allowed to bitch about in here Ar Button and Mclaren...oh and Whitmarsh....and I guess Perez, bu he's sweet you wouldn't want to bitch about him

Not as sweet as some drivers though....