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[onelapdown]

Just for the sake of it, I've totted up how many points various greats would have got under the current points system, expressed it in relation to their total starts, and compared it with what current drivers would have scored under this system: (win percentages in brackets)

Fangio 70.00% (47.1%)
Hamilton 66.11% (27.8%)
M Schumacher 60.73% (36.7%)
Prost 51.11% (25.6%)
Senna 47.77% (25.5%)
Alonso 47.60% (18.3%)
Clark 46.39% (34.7%)
Stewart 45.56% (27.3%)
Raikkonen 40.00% (12.4%)
Moss 37.42% (24.2%)
Lauda 32.05% (14.6%)
Coulthard 29.78% (5.7%)
Barrichello 26.04% (3.6%)
Massa 24.09% (5.7%)

I think it gives a nice perspective, particularly when you see Alonso ahead of Clark and Stewart. I think the greater reliability of modern cars has something to do with it, so if I had time it would be interesting to do the same discounting mechanical failures.

Anyway, discuss...

[al4x]

cant really draw any conclusions because some drivers always have a top car, others start at the bottom

very general comparission

[darwin dali]

Just for the sake of it, I've totted up how many points various greats would have got under the current points system, expressed it in relation to their total starts, and compared it with what current drivers would have scored under this system: (win percentages in brackets)

Fangio 70.00% (47.1%)
Hamilton 66.11% (27.8%)
M Schumacher 60.73% (36.7%)
Prost 51.11% (25.6%)
Senna 47.77% (25.5%)
Alonso 47.60% (18.3%)
Clark 46.39% (34.7%)
Stewart 45.56% (27.3%)
Raikkonen 40.00% (12.4%)
Moss 37.42% (24.2%)
Lauda 32.05% (14.6%)
Coulthard 29.78% (5.7%)
Barrichello 26.04% (3.6%)
Massa 24.09% (5.7%)

I think it gives a nice perspective, particularly when you see Alonso ahead of Clark and Stewart. I think the greater reliability of modern cars has something to do with it, so if I had time it would be interesting to do the same discounting mechanical failures.

Anyway, discuss...

What exactly are these percentages (I understand the ones in parentheses)? So, you calculated the points Fangio, e.g., would have gotten using the current point system, right? Did you factor in all the 7th and 8th places which in the past didn't get you any points?
And then what did you do to end up with percent of what?

[onelapdown]

Did I count 7th and 8th places? Yes. All the points are worked out as they would currently have been, and then it's worked out as a percentage of points they could have scored. So for example someone taking part in one race who finished 8th would have 1 point from a possible 10, and hence his figure would be 10.00%

I know it's complicated to devise a system that takes everything into account. For example Prost and Senna had Mansell, Rosberg, Piquet and Schumacher as rivals along the way, which might be a higher quality field than Fangio had to deal with. Then there's team orders to contend with... I still think there are some comparable groups with the same mix of car competitiveness, such as Hamilton and Fangio who pretty much always had winning cars.

[darwin dali]

All the points are worked out as they would currently have been, and then it's worked out as a percentage of points they could have scored.

Okay, this is the key phrase and missing piece of information in your original post - now it makes sense to me.

[darwin dali]

I still think there are some comparable groups with the same mix of car competitiveness, such as Hamilton and Fangio who pretty much always had winning cars.

Yes, and you notice how low LH's percentage of wins is compared to Fangio and especially compared to MS who spent quite a few years in a car that wasn't able to win at all. Imagine winning more than a third of your races over a period of 15 years and 250 starts!

[onelapdown]

...but in the case of both Fangio and Schumacher their team mates were often obliged to let the team leader win. Also some of Fangio's wins came in shared drives when his main car had broken down. Even so they're still pretty damned impressive stats!

[texasmr2]

Too many variable's of car, driver, era and technology for me to even make a valid opinion. Have we regressed to 'off-season's banter' once again?

[onelapdown]

Hmm, possibly...

I think when you look at the figures the factors that skew the stats are as interesting s the stats themselves, but if you look at the competitiveness of the cars driven by for example Senna and Alonso over the years it's roughly comparable. Anyway, the main point is that compared to the greats Hamilton is accumulating points pretty damn quickly!

[texasmr2]

Anyway, the main point is that compared to the greats Hamilton is accumulating points pretty damn quickly!

Yah you are right Lewis has been very impressive but let's not forget that Lewis started in one of the two best team's on the grid for the past two decade's. That cannot be said for some of the aforementioned great's but I'm not trying to take anything away from Lewis's skill. Lewis's 'percentage' is based upon his first year, let's see how Lewis perform's in a trully 'shitbox' race car? Race strategy, pitstop's and everything else come into play.

What seem's to be forgotten is the driver has the final say so in when he pit's for fuel or tire's. If Lewis achieve's the WDC this year it will not be due to HIS PERSONAL race strategy, that was proven last year, it will be the team's. I dont care who say's this or that as we all know 'maturity and experience', not just being in the best team or fastest car, is what produce's a WDC!

[racechick]

I like it onelapdown. Lewis ahead of Schuey YES!!!!

[darwin dali]

I like it onelapdown. Lewis ahead of Schuey YES!!!!

Look more carefully racechick: the more important number is the percentage of races won, where LH is behind. The percent of scored points of all points possible will drop soon enough once he's in a not so dominant car.

[Jabberwocky]

I read somewhere that if Moss was not going to win the race he would over rev the engine until it popped so he could blame the engine. so taking into account of mechanical failures might skew the information even more.

Then again looking after the machinery is the sign of a good driver.

*I am not saying that Moss is the only driver ever to do that but it was an example.

[racechick]

I like it onelapdown. Lewis ahead of Schuey YES!!!!

Look more carefully racechick: the more important number is the percentage of races won, where LH is behind. The percent of scored points of all points possible will drop soon enough once he's in a not so dominant car.

Well he's damn close on win percentages and against a double world champion teammate and two other very strong car driver combos(rather than a driver in a dominant car with a team-mate who is not allowed to challenge) and in only a rookie year! Wait till the end of this tear