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[racechick]

Is he really? Ron took over Mclaren in 81, in 84 he won 12 out of 16 races and both championships.
Pror to that he cadged three chassis off a friend, bought some rusty engines off Benie Ecclestone on HP and converted a horsebox to transport them to races. This was F2. He managed to get Graham Hill to drive one of his cars. In his FIRST RACE his drivers came 2nd and 5th and in his SECOND RACE he won. He was 23 years old and team manager. I'd say Whitmarsh has a way to go to come close to that.

Dennis took over in 1980. 80 - 9th, 81 - 6th, 82 - 2nd, 83 - 5th and 84 - 1st.
Whitmarsh took over in 2009. 09 - 3rd, 10 - 2nd, 11 - 2nd, 12 - 3rd.

So saying that Whitmarsh is not doing an acceptable job is in fact rubbish. McLaren have remained in the top 3 under his tenure despite having a somewhat unreliable car at times. Even their harshest critic has to admit that that is pretty good going.

As for Ron Dennis' life story, I could give a flying fig. It is irrelevant.

It's very relevant. And if you did give a flying fig you d maybe have a better understanding of his achievements.

[andrew]

Is he really? Ron took over Mclaren in 81, in 84 he won 12 out of 16 races and both championships.
Pror to that he cadged three chassis off a friend, bought some rusty engines off Benie Ecclestone on HP and converted a horsebox to transport them to races. This was F2. He managed to get Graham Hill to drive one of his cars. In his FIRST RACE his drivers came 2nd and 5th and in his SECOND RACE he won. He was 23 years old and team manager. I'd say Whitmarsh has a way to go to come close to that.

Dennis took over in 1980. 80 - 9th, 81 - 6th, 82 - 2nd, 83 - 5th and 84 - 1st.
Whitmarsh took over in 2009. 09 - 3rd, 10 - 2nd, 11 - 2nd, 12 - 3rd.

So saying that Whitmarsh is not doing an acceptable job is in fact rubbish. McLaren have remained in the top 3 under his tenure despite having a somewhat unreliable car at times. Even their harshest critic has to admit that that is pretty good going.

As for Ron Dennis' life story, I could give a flying fig. It is irrelevant.

It's very relevant. And if you did give a flying fig you d maybe have a better understanding of his achievements.

I don't care about his achievements. In this context they are irrelevant. Compare Dennis and Whitmarsh over each ones first 4 years in charge and you'll see that Whitmarsh is not doing a bad job.

[racechick]

Is he really? Ron took over Mclaren in 81, in 84 he won 12 out of 16 races and both championships.
Pror to that he cadged three chassis off a friend, bought some rusty engines off Benie Ecclestone on HP and converted a horsebox to transport them to races. This was F2. He managed to get Graham Hill to drive one of his cars. In his FIRST RACE his drivers came 2nd and 5th and in his SECOND RACE he won. He was 23 years old and team manager. I'd say Whitmarsh has a way to go to come close to that.

Dennis took over in 1980. 80 - 9th, 81 - 6th, 82 - 2nd, 83 - 5th and 84 - 1st.
Whitmarsh took over in 2009. 09 - 3rd, 10 - 2nd, 11 - 2nd, 12 - 3rd.

So saying that Whitmarsh is not doing an acceptable job is in fact rubbish. McLaren have remained in the top 3 under his tenure despite having a somewhat unreliable car at times. Even their harshest critic has to admit that that is pretty good going.

As for Ron Dennis' life story, I could give a flying fig. It is irrelevant.

It's very relevant. And if you did give a flying fig you d maybe have a better understanding of his achievements.

I don't care about his achievements. In this context they are irrelevant. Compare Dennis and Whitmarsh over each ones first 4 years in charge and you'll see that Whitmarsh is not doing a bad job.

Whitmarsh took over a team that Dennis made what it was. It had just won the championship and narrowly missed out on the double one the year before when Hitmarsh took charge. Since then, nothing. Of course Dennis' achievements are relevant.

[spankyham]

I wonder what odds I'd get on Hulkenberg finishing ahead of Perez next year.

[andrew]

Whitmarsh took over a team that Dennis made what it was. It had just won the championship and narrowly missed out on the double one the year before when Hitmarsh took charge. Since then, nothing. Of course Dennis' achievements are relevant.

Ron Dennis's achievements before he took over at McLaren are not in any way relevant to this discussion!

So I state for the final time in the hope that you get what I'm meaning - compare the first 4 seasons for each manager. Nothing to choose between them really.

If you don't get what I mean, I honestly give up. You win - Ron Dennis is the new messiah and Martin Whitmarsh is the worst person to ever walk the face of the earth!

[racechick]

Whitmarsh took over a team that Dennis made what it was. It had just won the championship and narrowly missed out on the double one the year before when Hitmarsh took charge. Since then, nothing. Of course Dennis' achievements are relevant.

Ron Dennis's achievements before he took over at McLaren are not in any way relevant to this discussion!

So I state for the final time in the hope that you get what I'm meaning - compare the first 4 seasons for each manager. Nothing to choose between them really.

If you don't get what I mean, I honestly give up. You win - Ron Dennis is the new messiah and Martin Whitmarsh is the worst person to ever walk the face of the earth!

No Ron Denis is the old Massiah, there is no new Messiah.

[andrew]

[racechick]

I wonder what odds I'd get on Hulkenberg finishing ahead of Perez next year.

Interesting thought!.......and what odds do you reckon you'd get on Hulkenberg finishing ahead of Button?

[racechick]

You don't? That's not the impression you give.

[andrew]

Read my earlier post. I give in. Martin Whitmarsh is the worst person to have ever set foot on the face of the earth. it is possible he is the worst person ever in the known universe.

[Hammer278]

I wonder what odds I'd get on Hulkenberg finishing ahead of Perez next year.

Interesting thought!.......and what odds do you reckon you'd get on Hulkenberg finishing ahead of Button?

Probably odds with less returns than the one with Perez.

[Nin-Chin]

They're all biased,but Ron works more professionally,in my view,he's still there u know

[bud]

I wonder what odds I'd get on Hulkenberg finishing ahead of Perez next year.

Was that a question or were you thinking out loud?

[Hammer278]

I wonder what odds I'd get on Hulkenberg finishing ahead of Perez next year.

Was that a question or were you thinking out loud?

I think it was both.

[theTruth]

Hey all! Happy to you and yours!

I admit I haven't read back in this thread yet, but this seems like a generally good place to post, with the dawn of a new season upon us.

That's because (like I said on another site before being shut down for being too strong for Lewis, in a pro-McLaren, pro-Button environment), I hate these muthafckrs (McLaren), and, "I think it's o.k. because it's not a person." They stand for everything I despise about the modern version of colonialism. Just think about what was at stake in the last election (perpetual war, versus a chance at peace), and you will get my drift. These m/f's represent the old way of thinking.

Button, I just started to feel sorry for him, lol. That mf was just trying to survive. It got so bad by Spa last year, that the whole world got to see exactly what was going on.

And that's why, despite being "the fastest man in F1," Lewis is the perpetual underdog, and that's why no one who embraces him, can ever, in my opinion, ever be a "fanboy" (whatever that is supposed to mean.) They get it, the haters just want to maintain, in one version or another, the status quo. Pity. They don't realize the promise the future may hold, too tied to the old ways.

Well anyway, this was the start of what was going to be a long rant. But this is probably too much already, lol.


p.s., ya'll sound like you would have been a great group to party with, ya'll keep me laughing.


Peace.