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[vlad]

Such a shame for Schumacher to bow out in such embarrassing style. I hope he drags that useless thing to a decent result next week.

I hope so too, just for old times sake. Mercedes have (save for a couple of exceptions) been embarassing since the Pirelli switch.

Mercedes have (save for a couple of exceptions) been embarassing since day 1.

[scotty]

Such a shame for Schumacher to bow out in such embarrassing style. I hope he drags that useless thing to a decent result next week.

I hope so too, just for old times sake. Mercedes have (save for a couple of exceptions) been embarassing since the Pirelli switch.

Mercedes have (save for a couple of exceptions) been embarassing since day 1.

I thought they did ok in 2010 generally (not accounting for the fact that they were WCC at the time mind you). Although looking at the Wiki page, they really only got 3 podiums that season? I thought they did better than that.

[Hammer278]

Such a shame for Schumacher to bow out in such embarrassing style. I hope he drags that useless thing to a decent result next week.

I hope so too, just for old times sake. Mercedes have (save for a couple of exceptions) been embarassing since the Pirelli switch.

Mercedes have (save for a couple of exceptions) been embarassing since day 1.

Wow. Big talk from a McLaren fan, so Mercs front grid lock out and race win in China, not to mentions Michael's pole in Monaco count as embarrassing too? FYI, this was after Day 1.

Merc had a fundamentally difficult car to build on this year, so they went down a wrong route. How about listing down the mistakes of another team who built a WDC winning car and mucked it up like a bunch of kids at a carnival, bowing out of both Championships with 3 races to go?

[bud]

at least they didnt bow out of the championship with 15 races to go...

[Hammer278]

It's a 3 year old full fledged team, not even Redbull achieved a win or a pole in their first 3 years in F1. And they were heavily involved in F1 before that too, so you can't use that as an excuse!

[bud]

3 years? they had the championship winning car to build on and they went backwards from day one, thats pretty pathetic!
see my sig, theyve been around since the 70s, different owners mean little. you are what you are, changing colours and name means little in the end.

[What's Burning?]

This is the new Lewis thread. I know you're confident in McLaren and their ability bud. Why not just let the next few seasons prove your point. Mercedes is the team with the up hill battle we all know that.

Let's just look forward to next year's on track tussles between Lewis and Jenson both duking it out for fifth or sixth.

[racechick]

Why have you written Brackley F1? Mercedes is Mercedes F1 not Brackley F1

[Hammer278]

3 years? they had the championship winning car to build on and they went backwards from day one, thats pretty pathetic!
see my sig, theyve been around since the 70s, different owners mean little. you are what you are, changing colours and name means little in the end.

Different owners? I'm talking about different STAFF who makes the difference, the owners just dictate the budget.

Btw, their WDC winning car was based on a team which had pulled the plug and went defunct before being bought over, and the car won the WDC simply because of a massive technical loophole which they exploited until the others caught up. Halfway through the season, they had such a massive advantage they could afford cruise mode (which Button is the expert at) till the end, but the team was no way in hell a genuine front runner.

As F1 has proven time and time again, its not about a fast car from the outset, its about development through a season. Brawn had none of that development prowess back in 2009 so lets not pretend they did. The car might not have Honda liveries on it but a lot of the staff which Brawn took over were Honda, and it does take time to poach the necessary people from other teams and to weed out the useless ones. They showed this year they are capable of developing a race winner, but nowhere close to sustaining one. Its probably what they were building on this year and the previous, you expect them to win WDCs without the technical staff? Look at McLaren, even with everyone in place they've won 1 WDC in 13 years. I'd expect a Redbull fan to slag off Mercedes, there's more credibility in that.

[bud]

Different staff? so Ferrari of 2012 is not the Ferrari of 1999 because there is different staff? The facilities the culture the team essence is the same. Different name means little to the actual environment you work in. Unless Mercedes picked up everything and moved to their home in Germany well sorry its just the same team as Honda had! But you can lap up your bitter comments about Mclaren all you like Hammer, ...you used to be ok but its clear where your heart lies huh. Lack of intelligence is shown by your lack of respect! So yes enjoy Lewis' win yesterday because it will be his last for a few years unless he can pull off one more in Brazil.

[racechick]

Mercedes have performed badly this year, but this year is written off. Some of the top dogs have only just started and one not until December. At the moment they're evaluating options for next year but the big change will be 2014. They want stable staff and drivers in place for that change. You want to look back at the last thirteen years? Before Mercedes F1 were even in existence? Fine it's two championships to Mercedes and one to Mclaren. Or you take the last three years when both teams were in existence and its nil nil. For a team going as long as Mclaren I think that reflects worse on them.

[Hammer278]

Different staff? so Ferrari of 2012 is not the Ferrari of 1999 because there is different staff? The facilities the culture the team essence is the same. Different name means little to the actual environment you work in. Unless Mercedes picked up everything and moved to their home in Germany well sorry its just the same team as Honda had! But you can lap up your bitter comments about Mclaren all you like Hammer, ...you used to be ok but its clear where your heart lies huh. Lack of intelligence is shown by your lack of respect! So yes enjoy Lewis' win yesterday because it will be his last for a few years unless he can pull off one more in Brazil.

Of course the Ferrari of 1999 is different! Do you see Ferrari of today the same as the one which was on the brink of winning 5 WDCs in a trot? I don't! Their senior management had changed, their technical team went through changes, Rory Bryne was their Adrian Newey, Brawn was their chess master, Todt their leader!

My point is, Brawn took over a team which was not really geared towards winning any Championships...I mean, would Honda have even left if they knew what was coming for 2009? They spent a fortune and left with nothing just as soon as they had struck gold. This doesn't mean, however that the team had the technical and managerial staff to sustain Championships challenges year in year out. I would think this is the main focus for Brawn in his mission to turn this team around to get it to the level of the Top 3 today. McLaren, even if they are failures at winning Championships, manage to keep us all at the edge of our seats until the last 2-3 races...it's indeed a boast which Brawn can't claim at this moment.

What you said 2 posts earlier "Brawn took a WDC team and brought it down to the level they are at now" was totally inaccurate and I put my reasoning forth as to why. Neither you, nor I know what Mercedes can do in 2013, so let's not pretend that we do. I never said they're going to trump the field, but bitter McLaren fans like yourself and LewEng just can't face the fact that the driver who's able to bring the necessary results is leaving, weakening McLaren even more. It's just stupid to see some posts saying "Merc won't be achieving anything in the future" when Redbull were once beaten by their JUNIOR team just 2 years before they won 3 WDCs (almost)/3WCCs on the trot!

[bud]

Im not bitter at all, I like Lewis unlike you and your now bitter view of McLaren... I just hate hearing you and your fellow what ever you want to call yourselves continually go on and on and on about how s*** McLaren is . Bitter? look in the mirror mate!

[Hammer278]

FYI I was willing for Lewis to sign up for Merc way before he actually did....since I felt McLaren are wasting his talents and time. I don't know if that's called 'bitter' but like I've told you before, I was never much of a team fan as much as a driver fan. Don't hold any shares with McLaren so even if they went bankrupt and left F1 it won't really affect my mood.

[myownalias]

Bottom line is that Lewis has made his decision; some of us may agree, some of us may not agree; but that doesn't really matter as none of us are Lewis Hamilton. I hope that Lewis does well as Mercedes but given the past three years, I am not hopeful that it will happen; if a seven time world champion can give the team enough input to make it consistently fast; I doubt that Lewis Hamilton can do better! But none of us know what next season holds, Button/McLaren can talk up next season's car but until we see them turn a wheel in anger, we simply don't know!